Considering a New Saw.

[projectnut]

I stopped into one of my favorite used equipment dealers earlier today. As usual there were a number of things that caught my I, but one thing stood out from the crowd. It's a like new Delta 14" radial arm saw. It's a top-of-the-line machine, in pristine condition, and was just removed from the local high school. I was a bit surprised to see it had a 2 hp 220V single phase motor. Most other saws I've seen of this size are 3 phase.

Unfortunately, I didn't take any pictures, but I did find a photo of a similar machine online.

Rockwell / Delta 14-RAS 14″ Radial Arm Saw - The Equipment Hub

Visit here to learn more about this Rockwell / Delta 14-RAS 14″ Radial Arm Saw for sale. Contact us today for additional details.

theequipmenthub.com

I currently have an older Dewalt 10" radial arm saw. It's in excellent condition, but not nearly the caliber of the 14" Delta. I'm seriously thinking of upgrading from my current 10" Dewalt to the 14" Delta. Does anyone have experience with these saws, and if so, what are your opinions. I'd also like to know what you think it would be worth.

Thanks in advance.

 

[MikeInOr]

I just finished rebuilding a 16" 3ph long arm Delta turret arm radial arm saw. I am a big fan of the turret arm radial arm saws and would definitely replace a 10" Dewalt with a 14" Delta.

Take a straight edge with you and make sure the carriage tracks straight by just skimming the corner of the straight edge with a single tooth on the blade. Or take a 14" wide piece of plywood with you and make sure the test cut is straight with your straight edge. If it tracks straight and all the movements work properly I would go for it. If it doesn't cut perpendicular to the fence or square these are easy to adjust and stay put after being aligned.

When transporting and RAS it is best to lower the motor onto a block of wood to take the weight of the motor / carriage off the tracks.

Radial arm saws and high school woodworking classes don't mix. Most instructors are usually afraid a student will cut a hand off so the saw has probably seen almost no use.

That saw was a few thousand dollars when new. These days $600 is a little high for a radial arm saw because there just isn't much demand for them. If the saw is in excellent shape and doesn't need any work to make it useable I would have no problems spending $600 on it. But you do have a good bit of bargaining room due to the how unpopular RAS's are these days. You are correct that most saws this size are 3ph saws. It will most likely be quite a while before you find another large 1ph radial arm saw in good shape.

3 hp (the add says 3 hp and you say 2 hp?, 3 hp is a more common motor size on this saw) should be plenty of power for most anything you would want to do with a 14" blade. I really appreciate having the extra blade height over a 10" RAS. There are cuts that just aren't possible with a smaller blade. There is also a lot more iron in that saw than your 10" which adds rigidity. The large Delta RAS's are very ridged! They also have very good angle stops and return to zero after a miter cut very well without having to check the alignment after every miter cut.

Here is a rebuild thread of my 16" RAS: https://owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=243483

P.S. I have been using a 1947 16" turret arm radial arm saw for 30+ years. The only reason I upgraded was to get the longer arm of the saw in my rebuild thread.

 

[Martin W]

They made a great saw. Pretty much bullet proof, hence why they were put in school shops. Could be anywhere from $200-1500 around here.
Where I started as an apprentice, we used one with a moulding head swivelled on its side to make mouldings for wall units. Had lots of power to boot. Looking back there was a lot easier ways to make trim! Lol
Martin

 

[Choiliefan]

I have an 18" Delta of the same pattern. 5-hp 3-ph run off a converter with idler motor.
Very nice machine but scary and potentially very dangerous if one loses concentration for a moment.
Make sure your saw comes with the anti-kickback fingers bar before doing any ripping operations.

 

[projectnut]

I just finished rebuilding a 16" 3ph long arm Delta turret arm radial arm saw. I am a big fan of the turret arm radial arm saws and would definitely replace a 10" Dewalt with a 14" Delta.

Take a straight edge with you and make sure the carriage tracks straight by just skimming the corner of the straight edge with a single tooth on the blade. Or take a 14" wide piece of plywood with you and make sure the test cut is straight with your straight edge. If it tracks straight and all the movements work properly I would go for it. If it doesn't cut perpendicular to the fence or square these are easy to adjust and stay put after being aligned.

When transporting and RAS it is best to lower the motor onto a block of wood to take the weight of the motor / carriage off the tracks.

Radial arm saws and high school woodworking classes don't mix. Most instructors are usually afraid a student will cut a hand off so the saw has probably seen almost no use.

That saw was a few thousand dollars when new. These days $600 is a little high for a radial arm saw because there just isn't much demand for them. If the saw is in excellent shape and doesn't need any work to make it useable I would have no problems spending $600 on it. But you do have a good bit of bargaining room due to the how unpopular RAS's are these days. You are correct that most saws this size are 3ph saws. It will most likely be quite a while before you find another large 1ph radial arm saw in good shape.

3 hp (the add says 3 hp and you say 2 hp?, 3 hp is a more common motor size on this saw) should be plenty of power for most anything you would want to do with a 14" blade. I really appreciate having the extra blade height over a 10" RAS. There are cuts that just aren't possible with a smaller blade. There is also a lot more iron in that saw than your 10" which adds rigidity. The large Delta RAS's are very ridged! They also have very good angle stops and return to zero after a miter cut very well without having to check the alignment after every miter cut.

Here is a rebuild thread of my 16" RAS: https://owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=243483

P.S. I have been using a 1947 16" turret arm radial arm saw for 30+ years. The only reason I upgraded was to get the longer arm of the saw in my rebuild thread.

Thanks for the response. I went back to the dealer Friday afternoon and discussed the saw with him. You were right about the machine being 3 hp. It's a model 33-400. When I spoke to him Thursday, he was just going from information he'd been given by the school. It seems he had bid on this saw and a DoAll contour bandsaw along with some other equipment early last May. The school sold him everything but the 2 saws. They kept them thinking they could get more money by posting them on Facebook Marketplace.

Fast forward to the end of October and no one at the school had done anything as far as trying to sell the machines. They called him last Monday asking if the offer he made in May was still valid. He said yes so the school maintenance people loaded them on a truck and delivered them to him on Wednesday. It wasn't much of a drive from the school to the dealer since they are almost literally across the highway from one another.

I happened by on Thursday afternoon and was pleasantly surprised by the fact that the saw was even available, and certainly the condition it was in. I didn't make an offer that day thinking I would present the possibility of upgrading my current saw to my wife that evening. It just so happens I have a fairly large project in the wings that this saw would be perfect for. When we put the pencil to what the project would cost if we had it contracted out, or purchased premade components the decision was made. It would have tripled the cost to buy premade components and more than doubled the cost to have a contractor complete the job. The least expensive option by far was to buy the raw materials and the saw and complete the project in "spare time" over the winter. I went back to the dealer Saturday morning, and we agreed on a price which was considerably less than what he was originally asking. He delivered it to the newly remodeled garage at the family cottage Saturday afternoon.

I did get a chance to take a quick look at it last night and have a couple questions.. It has 2 knobs on the front panel of the stand that the manual says are "TABLE CLAMP KNOBS. Fig 3. Allow the operator to quickly set the desired fence position." The knobs are attached by a threaded shaft to stop blocks at the rear of the table. When the knobs are rotated the stops move forward and back. However, the table itself seems to be permanently bolted to the saw frame and will not move.

I won't have any more time this weekend to look it over but was wondering what I'm missing as far as moving the fence is concerned. I've attached a few pictures of the saw sitting in the garage. Note the distance between the rear of the table and the column. I was under the impression that the table could be moved closer to the column to allow larger work pieces to be cut.

 

[Choiliefan]

That's a beauty and a lot newer than mine.
On mine the front table is rigidly attached to the frame with a couple different width removable boards between it and fence clamp.
Your arm appears unusually long. How wide a board can you cross-cut?

 

[projectnut]

The arm (turret) on this machine is 42" long. The table depth is 45" and the width is 72". I haven't checked out everything yet, so I haven't run the saw. Various sources list the crosscut as being either 29" or 33". When the fence is set at the back of the table the kerf in the table extends to 42" long. I'm not sure if the blade extends far enough beyond the rear of the table that it would be possible to start the motor without the blade already being engaged in the work piece. Picture #2 shows how far forward the blade will cut.

It's interesting that this saw came up at this particular time. The rebuilding of the garage was just completed a few weeks ago. Until now it was used as a glorified storage shed. A dirt floor, poor lighting, only a single 120-volt outlet, and gaps big enough in the siding that at one time a wood chuck decided it was a good place to set up residence.

The contractor put in a concrete floor and rebuilt the place from the ground up only saving some of the sill plate, a few studs, the rafters, and part of the roof deck. He added a side pedestrian door, an insulated overhead door, plenty of lighting, and 120-volt outlets all around. He suggested wall and ceiling insulation, 220-volt outlets, a door opener, and either propane or natural gas heat. Like a dummy I said we wouldn't need all that for a storage shed.

The finished product turned out so well I'm already wishing we'd taken many of his suggestions. Fortunately, he did run 220 single phase power to the new garage sub panel. Since the new saw is a 220-volt single phase machine I'll be adding outlets in the next few weeks. The near-term project is to get the outlets installed, and the machine running. Longer term is to build all new decking for the pier. Extended term is to take the 10" saw that's in my shop at home to the cottage and bring the larger 14" one back to the home shop.

 

[MikeInOr]

I did get a chance to take a quick look at it last night and have a couple questions.. It has 2 knobs on the front panel of the stand that the manual says are "TABLE CLAMP KNOBS. Fig 3. Allow the operator to quickly set the desired fence position." The knobs are attached by a threaded shaft to stop blocks at the rear of the table. When the knobs are rotated the stops move forward and back. However, the table itself seems to be permanently bolted to the saw frame and will not move.

I won't have any more time this weekend to look it over but was wondering what I'm missing as far as moving the fence is concerned. I've attached a few pictures of the saw sitting in the garage. Note the distance between the rear of the table and the column. I was under the impression that the table could be moved closer to the column to allow larger work pieces to be cut.

My 1947 Redstar Model 50A has a table that can be moved in and out which of course moves the fence at the same time. The 1940's Redstar model 50 and model 60 are the ONLY 2 radial arm saws that I know of with this feature. No other Delta / Rockwell, Dewalt or other manufacture RAS has this feature.

Those two knobs are basically clamps. You loosen the two knobs/clamps then you can remove the fence and reposition the piece behind the fence to in front of the fence effectively moving the fence backwards. You then tighten the knobs to clamp the fence in place. The majority of the table does not move. This is needed for left hand miters. Pretty much all RAS's work this way.

The Delta Model 33-400 is the LONG arm version of their radial arm saw. The regular Delta RAS's have a crosscut capacity of 18". The long arm saws have a crosscut capacity of 24". To me the Delta Long arm radial arm saws are the pinnacle of the turret arm radial arm saws. Personally I would drop everything and go get that saw even if you I paid $600 for it. I doubt you will ever find another single phase long arm Delta radial arm saw for sale again, no less one in pristine condition.

I just read your post about the 33-400 having a 29" or 33" crosscut capacity. This doesn't sound right to me but I could be wrong. I found the American Woodworking chart that list the crosscut capacity as 29" but it just doesn't sound correct. It is definitely a Long arm RAS but I think the crosscut is 24". 33" is probably the outward rip capacity of the saw. What ever the crosscut capacity is 24" is a sweet spot due to the standard width of 24" kitchen cabinets and 24" being half a 48" sheet. If the crosscut capacity is bigger than 24" all the better! If it is "just" 24 inches it is an incredible handy width and larger than most all other radial arm saws.

I have had my Redstar 50A for 35 years and it is an incredible saw. I am selling my Redstar 50A because I found a 16" Long arm Delta radial arm saw. Those extra 6" make a BIG difference. With 48" wide sheet goods I seem to make a LOT of 24" cuts. This is especially true when building cabinets.

You have probably already found this manual: https://www.mikestools.com/download/Delta-Radial-Arm-Saw-Manuals/Delta_33-400.pdf
Unfortunately it doesn't list the cutting capacities of the saw.

P.S. Check out page C2 of this Delta sales brochure: http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1141/28708.pdf

 

[tcooper27]

I have a 14” Delta 40B which is one of the precursors of that saw you’re looking at. They’re great machines. That long arm is desirable as people said it will cut 24” which is great for cabinets. The carriage bearings are a weird shape and getting hard to find but the rails are easily replaceable. Usually the carriage bearings can be re-greased and reconditioned to work just fine. The rails are also not nearly as hard as the bearings so they take the brunt of the wear.

Those front knobs pull the floating back tables against the fixed front table and clamp the fence in place. You will need to move the fence and re-arrange the back tables when doing miters. Previous saws used other methods like moving the entire table under the saw like on the 50A. My 40B’s lower arm pivot slides on dovetails to reposition the entire lower arm and all parts of the table stay stationary.

 

[projectnut]

Thanks everyone for your help. When looking at the information available online about the saw some of it didn't sound too realistic. While the machine is considerably larger than my 10" Dewalt it didn't seem as though it would be able to crosscut close to triple the width board. Many of the features on the Dewalt are similar to those on the Delta, but far more "simplified" as in built for a homeowner or hobbyist rather than for professional use.

Thanks for the links to the publications. I did find the manual on Mikes Tools but hadn't found the brochure on the Vintage Machinery website. I always prefer information from the manufacturer as opposed to other sources.

I did purchase the saw. When I talked to the dealer, I made an offer that was accepted. He didn't even counteroffer. I know he wanted the real-estate in the warehouse, and I'm sure he thought it would be a hard sell. Over the years he's offered me a couple smaller radial arm saws at no charge just to get them out of the warehouse. I passed on the previous ones because the one I already had was better quality and in better condition.

The saw was delivered to the garage at our cottage Saturday. We're probably going back there this Wednesday or Thursday. Hopefully I can get some time to do a better inspection and make sure everything is in good order. If time allows, I'll wire in a 220 outlet and give it a try. I'm not in a rush. I'd rather take my time and look it over carefully. At first look it appears to be in excellent condition. However, having been in a school there's always the possibility it's been in an accident that the instructor wasn't aware of.