Converting Cap & Ball Revolvers Into Single Shot Pistols

[swampdoctor]

I have been kicking this idea around for some time. Here are the details: By removing the cylinder and barrel from a Colt cap and ball revolver and replacing them with a unit that slips over the mandrel and securing it with a colt pistol wedge, with the upper assembly threaded for whatever size barrel that it is possible to use such as 32, or 36, or 40, or 45 caliber, with a percussion nipple... I believe that a Small Game hunting Pistol would be quite possible to construct and it would be simple to switch back to revolver mode in only a moment. The bore of the cylinder is very close to the center mandrel, but by raising the center line of the accessory barrel, any number of barrel combinations could be possible. Also by aligning the nipple with the hammer in a higher position than where the hammer normally engages the nipples on the cylinder the barrel could be positioned with a higher sighting plane. My dear Machining Experts I would appreciate any input on this idea that you may have.

 

[george wilson]

Load only 1 cylinder of your six shooter.

I'm sorry,I fail to see the advantage to making your gun single shot.

 

[swampdoctor]

Versatility of possibly having a 14 inch scoped single shot small game caliber barrel on your favorite Colt Navy or Dragoon just for the fun of it. Switching back to revolver mode would be as simple as sliding out the wedge and replacing the cylinder and barrel into their usual places. And the possibility of having multiple uses from a single platform? Colt types of cap and ball revolvers do not always hit where they are aimed and mounting handgun scopes on them is not readily possible usually. I am surprised that almost everyone who shoots Cap and Ball seem to be offended by this idea of more veratility for their Colts. I do cartridge conversions but i do not regard them to be practical though. but i do lean closer to the single shot idea.

 

[backbencher]

Or make it a 16" metallic cartridge bbl, & then you have a stock project as well.

You can do so, but black powder is not known for its accuracy. Make it a muzzleloading smokeless bbl, and game on. Double bbl pepperbox smokeless? Just the thing for Texas muzzleloading season, particularly if you can permanently mount a twin suppressor up front - though how you muzzle load past a permanently affixed suppressor I know not ; )

Some states have black powder seasons, which is why I'd love to have a Lee-Metford in .303" compressed black powder. Texas has a muzzle loading season, and cap & ball revolvers do not qualify.

 

[george wilson]

Please read my thread here on making a black powder revolver shoot straight. A Remington type revolver with a frame with a top strap is a great candidate for accurizing your gun. Open top pistols would involve a lot more work.

If the gun will not shoot accurately to begin with,adding a scope will accomplish nothing. My Remington shoots like a rifle now that I have reamed the cylinders in situ,and discretely widened the sights so I can see them better.

I have decided to make the thread a sticky,so it's near the very top of the first page.

 

[swampdoctor]

Thank you George. I prefer to accurize Colts by either dimpling the muzzle crown to move the point of impact, or I stone the bearing surface where the twin pins engage the bottom of the barrel unit on the right or left to move the point of impact. I own a few Remington Clones and I have made pistol scope mounts for them, but I prefer the feel of a Colt. Some States do not allow C&B revolvers for B.P. hunting and i came up with this idea as a way to still be able to use the frame of your favorite Colt for creating a Legal blackpowder hunting pistol only. Go ahead and cancell this C&B single shot conversion post if you like.

 

[george wilson]

No need to cancel this post. I see nothing dangerous being proposed. I hadn't heard of dimpling the muzzle. It would bother me,defacing my gun. But,the problem with Italian repros really is that EACH cylinder is out of alignment different amounts either in a vertical or horizontal plane,or both. Plus,they are too small to fit the bore of the barrel properly. I found it very convenient to use the Remington's ability to use a screw in barrel.My gun shoots just as well as a modern Smith and Wesson revolver.

If you wanted to go to the trouble of making a perfect copy of the barrel on your open top Colt,but make it a smooth bore to insert a reamer into,you could make it quite accurate too,provided that the cylinders were not too far off to bring into alignment while enlarging them. You would have to be extra accurate about getting the holes perfectly located for the double pins,the cylinder pin,and the bore of the barrel just the same as the original barrel. It might be simpler to buy an extra barrel and bore it out for your reamer,IF the barrels are made consistenly. I don't know what the Italians really do consistently!!

I like the look of the Colts better,too,but another problem I have noticed with them is the hammer is the rear sight,and it can waggle some when it is cocked. IIRC,some original Colts had a rear sight mounted near the breech of their barrels. The Dragoons,I think. That would be helpful in the matter of sights.

By the way,there is nothing inaccurate about black powder itself. It's the guns not being made perfectly. Old time shooters got well nigh impossible accuracy with their black powder target rifles. Accuracy that we marvel at today. They knew how to nurse them along.

 

[swampdoctor]

No need to cancel this post. I see nothing dangerous being proposed. I hadn't heard of dimpling the muzzle. It would bother me,defacing my gun. But,the problem with Italian repros really is that EACH cylinder is out of alignment different amounts either in a vertical or horizontal plane,or both. Plus,they are too small to fit the bore of the barrel properly. I found it very convenient to use the Remington's ability to use a screw in barrel.My gun shoots just as well as a modern Smith and Wesson revolver.

If you wanted to go to the trouble of making a perfect copy of the barrel on your open top Colt,but make it a smooth bore to insert a reamer into,you could make it quite accurate too,provided that the cylinders were not too far off to bring into alignment while enlarging them. You would have to be extra accurate about getting the holes perfectly located for the double pins,the cylinder pin,and the bore of the barrel just the same as the original barrel. It might be simpler to buy an extra barrel and bore it out for your reamer,IF the barrels are made consistenly. I don't know what the Italians really do consistently!!

I like the look of the Colts better,too,but another problem I have noticed with them is the hammer is the rear sight,and it can waggle some when it is cocked. IIRC,some original Colts had a rear sight mounted near the breech of their barrels. The Dragoons,I think. That would be helpful in the matter of sights.

By the way,there is nothing inaccurate about black powder itself. It's the guns not being made perfectly. Old time shooters got well nigh impossible accuracy with their black powder target rifles. Accuracy that we marvel at today. They knew how to nurse them along.

I picked up the method of centering a punch on the muzzle crown for moving the impact of the projectile on guns that shot far from the point of aim, from the Ithaca Gun Company in 1983. And I have used it often enough on muzzle loading guns and even a few cartridge guns. So blame it on Ithaca.

 

[george wilson]

I take your word it works. I am just such a tight a$$ that every time I picked up a gun I had dimpled,my eye would go right to it.

But,what do you do about the misaligned cylinders and too small bullets that come out of them?

 

[swampdoctor]

Re: Converting Cap & Ball Revolvers Into Single Shot Pistols

I take your word it works. I am just such a tight a$$ that every time I picked up a gun I had dimpled,my eye would go right to it.

But,what do you do about the misaligned cylinders and too small bullets that come out of them?

(Swampdoctor here) I use an 11 degree forcing cone reamer, plus I rebore the chambers to 0.453", and I chamfer the chamber mouths with a Lyman VLD tool to a depth of 3/16" so the lead balls swage into the chamber and provide a longer bearing surface on the bore, greatly improving accuracy. After I have used a center punch to move the points of impact to where the guns fixed sights are aiming, I recrown the muzzle. If you ever do dimple a crown to move the point of impact...tap the punch very lightly because an ounce of pressure there can make a ton of difference. (AS a point) A Savage 22 shot two feet high at 100 feet with the rear sight turned all the way down. I very reluctantly dimpled that barrels upper crown and I was able to walk each shot right to where it was supposed to be hitting. Then I recrowned the muzzle. The Owner never knew...And he is still using it more than twenty years later. But at the first I was concerned about a barrels "Bad Memory" returning but so far it has never happened. George, the very worst Cap & Ball revolvers I have rebuilt were made right here in the U.S. in Kalifornia and the mandrels of all of the Colt Replicas had to be set back before decent accuracy could be had. What can I say? Maybe some of us should design and reinvent the Modern Cap and Ball Revolver...maybe one day I will/.

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I take your word it works. I am just such a tight a$$ that every time I picked up a gun I had dimpled,my eye would go right to it.

But,what do you do about the misaligned cylinders and too small bullets that come out of them?

(Swampdoctor here) I use an 11 degree forcing cone reamer, plus I rebore the chambers to 0.453", and I chamfer the chamber mouths with a Lyman VLD tool to a depth of 3/16" so the lead balls swage into the chamber and provide a longer bearing surface on the bore, greatly improving accuracy. After I have used a center punch to move the points of impact to where the guns fixed sights are aiming, I recrown the muzzle. If you ever do dimple a crown to move the point of impact...tap the punch very lightly because an ounce of pressure there can make a ton of difference. (AS a point) A Savage 22 shot two feet high at 100 feet with the rear sight turned all the way down. I very reluctantly dimpled that barrels upper crown and I was able to walk each shot right to where it was supposed to be hitting. Then I recrowned the muzzle. The Owner never knew...And he is still using it more than twenty years later. But at the first I was concerned about a barrels "Bad Memory" returning but so far it has never happened. George, the very worst Cap & Ball revolvers I have rebuilt were made right here in the U.S. in Kalifornia and the mandrels of all of the Colt Replicas had to be set back before decent accuracy could be had. What can I say? Maybe some of us should design and reinvent the Modern Cap and Ball Revolver...maybe one day I will/. I wish that we could obtain larger diameter cylinders for our C&B 's so that we would be able to safely rebore them. I have E-mailed someone who makes replacement cylinders but i have not heard from him yet, Filing the frame openings on certain guns would not be wise though.