Deciding on tooling/ tool holding

Hey Old Man!

Registered
Registered
Joined
Sep 21, 2023
Messages
2
Recently retired from school facilities director position and decided I needed a winter project. Picked up a 12” Craftsman/Atlas lathe with absolutely no tooling, just a lantern style tool post. First order of business is to get the lathe clean. It seems to be in pretty decent condition, is well oiled, no rust but kinda grimy. I have already ordered MOLO from Ozark Press to get me familiar with the machine.
I assume this lathe uses 1/4” tooling(?). Anyways, since I’m starting from scratch, my question is, do I start with 1/4” tooling and the lantern post or get a quick change tool post and bump the tooling up to 3/8”? I don’t want to do things twice and would like to learn how to grind my own tooling instead of buying ready to use tooling.
Any tips, tricks or even snide remarks (I have pretty thick skin) are welcome.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Mike
 
Recently retired from school facilities director position and decided I needed a winter project. Picked up a 12” Craftsman/Atlas lathe with absolutely no tooling, just a lantern style tool post. First order of business is to get the lathe clean. It seems to be in pretty decent condition, is well oiled, no rust but kinda grimy. I have already ordered MOLO from Ozark Press to get me familiar with the machine.
I assume this lathe uses 1/4” tooling(?). Anyways, since I’m starting from scratch, my question is, do I start with 1/4” tooling and the lantern post or get a quick change tool post and bump the tooling up to 3/8”? I don’t want to do things twice and would like to learn how to grind my own tooling instead of buying ready to use tooling.
Any tips, tricks or even snide remarks (I have pretty thick skin) are welcome.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Mike
If you have the holders, a lantern tool post is a great way to start learning how to use a lathe. You can always step up to a quick change post later. The 1/4” HSS cutters are easier to grind and can still be used with a QCTP.

If you don’t have any holders, then spend the money on an AXA setup. Don’t get rid of the lantern post though, they can be handy In certain situations. Have fun!
 
Hi Welcome to HM.
As a former lantern man for many years, I recommend moving to a QCTP as soon as possible. Yes the lantern is very capable but re-centering the tool with every change is a real PITA...
With a 12" lathe you could even go with a BXA size if you wanted.
Grinding HSS tools is a great skill to learn, there is an extensive thread on the subject here: https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/models-for-grinding-hss-lathe-tools.62111/
 
Welcome to the forum. We will gladly help spend your money. Don't be afraid to ask any question no matter how simple you think it is. There are some really knowledgeable people on this forum who will answer your questions. We are a friendly bunch.

What's your budget? What do you want to make with your lathe? What came with the lathe?

If money is no object then by all means buy everything under the sun for the lathe. Even then you should only buy what you need for a given project.

If you are on a budget then make a Norman QCTP. https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/norman-style-qctp.79705/ It will be a fraction of the cost of a commercial QCTP. And you will gain lots of valuable experience. All you need is a lathe and a drill. A lot of forum members have made them.

Mikey's excellent thread on grinding HSS is a must read. The basics are on page 10 or 11. https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/models-for-grinding-hss-lathe-tools.62111/ His thread on boring is another must read. https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/a-boring-primer.75721/

If you have not found Mr Pete's (aka Tubalcain) you tube channel here is a link. https://www.youtube.com/c/mrpete222/videos He is a retired high school shop teacher who really knows how to teach. IMHO he is the best there is on the web to learn the basics of machining. Once you have the basics down there are others that can help you with the fine points of machining.

When I started this hobby I practiced on pvc pipe to learn the motor skills necessary for turning and threading. Both internal and external. I spent at least 40 hours just practicing before I tried to make anything.
 
I believe I had a BXA and 3/8" tooling on my Atlas, but I may have been able to slide in 1/2" tooling. The rigidity is a huge jump over AXA with 1/4" tooling. The Chinesium version will work just fine. I'd say different if it were a Hardinge, but lets be real. The most important part is the biggest tooling that will fit. Just like with engines, there is not replacement for cubic inches.
You can get a piston type holder for just over a Benjamin :https://www.amazon.com/Lathe-Quick-Change-Tool-Holder/dp/B001EKAJLK/ref=sr_1_27

And a set of tools for less that fifty. https://www.amazon.com/Indexable-Carbide-Turning-Machining-TCMT16T304/dp/B08T5J9FVQ/ref=sr_1_3_sspa

Yes. Chinesium. But, they'll cut just fine and get you started on learning what you don't know you needed to learn.
 
Just like with engines, there is no replacement for cubic inches. displacement.
There, fixed that.

Definitely go with a QCTP.
I'm quite happy with the Bostar AXA on my SB Heavy 10


If you want to go bigger, the BXA package is also a good buy.

 
Realize that if you use HSS tooling in your QC tool post, that using larger sizes of tool bits makes for a lot more grinding to get the tool shapes you want and consider that the Atlas machines are not particularly rigid or powerful enough to take advantage of larger tooling and deeper cuts that bigger tool bits would make possible. Also for some of the same reasons, carbide insert tooling may not be appropriate for light duty machines.
 
I'd recommend replacing the half nuts if there's any appreciable play in them. You can work around worn ones with a fair amount of backlash (I did for a couple years), but it will just make everything that much more frustrating. There's always going to be some backlash (or the screw wouldn't move), but dealing with minimal backlash is easier than a lot of backlash. You can still order new half nuts from Clausing and in retrospect, they should have been one of the first things I fixed on my Atlas.

Give the leadscrew a good inspection as well. If it's worn to mostly sharp points on the Acme thread, make plans to replace it. Again, you can work around it, but it makes many things a PITB that don't have to be. Last time I checked, Clausing still sold the leadscrews, but they're not cheap by any means.

Not much you can do about wear on the ways, but the worst of it will be within 3-5 inches of the chuck. that's where the majority of lathe work is done.

You can do good work with a lantern post, but it's so much more of a PITA than a QCTP.

I used the lantern for a while when I first got my Atlas, mostly to prove I could. Well, I also wanted to be half decent with it just in case I ever had something break or fail and I needed something to "get me through" until I could fix whatever was broken.

It was night and day when I switched my Atlas TH42 to a QCTP. Mine is a 10" so I use an AXA. So much easier to mount tooling, so much easier to get it on center. Adds a measure of rigidity too. Get a "wedge" style QCTP is you can swing it. A piston type is ok for hobby work, but a wedge is better, assuming you can part with a bit more cash.

The next thing I did was to add a DC motor and controller. Again, a leap of light years in usability. Most guys go AC with a VFD, I prefer the DC motor. But it is a more unusual direction than most that go with the AC motors. Different strokes for different folks.

Chuck. If it's not in good shape, get a new one. Even a no-name import is better than a well worn original. My preference is for an independent 4 jaw over 3 jaws or scrolls. Takes a little longer to learn how to use it but once you do, it's almost as fast mounting stock and you can mount odd shapes and still easily get them on center. I look at it this way: anything you can do on a 3 jaw/scroll chuck, you can on an independent 4 jaw. But there are things you can do on an independent 4 jaw that you can't do on a 3 jaw/scroll. You're trading off speed of use for versatility, but you also only have to buy one chuck. that's an important consideration if you're a hobbiest on a limited budget.

I also took the top compound slide off and made a solid plinth to hold the QCTP. What that does is remove another point where the lathe can "vibrate" or "flex". With the top compound, parting was a major frustration. Chatter, vibration, jumping, jamming etc. Even with all the gibs cranked right down. Once the plinth went on, parting became almost a joy. I used to avoid parting at all costs, now I just grab the parting tool and have at it without a second thought. I only install the top compound now when I need it for a specific operation (cutting bevels, etc). I use the plinth pretty much exclusively these days.

Change gears. Get yourself a set unless your lathe has the Quick change gear box. 3D printed ones work fine. I have a couple in the driveline of my TH42. Not because I was missing them, but because the plastic gears take a lot of the "ring" noise out of the lathe when it's running.

Get some lighting on it. Flexible arms are the best so you can put it right where you want/need it.

I mounted a small whiteboard on arms that raise and lower. Gives me a place to do some math calcs and/or write down a measurement so I don't have to try and hold it in my brain. I much prefer it to having a paper pad lying around which always gets oily, knocked to the floor, misplaced, etc. Velcro some dry erase markers and a digital calculator to it as well and you're good to go.

MOLO. Manual of lathe operations. It's the stock Atlas users manual. Tells you everything you need to know about setup, maintenance, adjustments, lubrication, screw pitches, etc. It's also written in fairly common English, so the average guy can understand it. Not a lot of machinist technical terms and subjects, but plenty to get you up and running. Lots of options to download it in PDF, or you can buy a paper copy from various sources.

Get a drill chuck on the proper MT for the tail-stock. I like the older Jacobs chucks that were USA made (with a pref for superchucks). But they're all old and worn by now and rebuild kits are expensive and hard to find. New Jacobs are all built "overseas" these days, so just get something the best quality you can afford. I find keyed or keyless doesn't mater much to me. I actually have a pref for keyed chucks. I'm just a "Traditionalist" I guess.

The rest is down to the actual tooling you want/need to do the jobs you want to do. Off the top of my head: left and right cutters, parting tooling, boring tooling. You can start with grinding your own HSS blanks for the various tooling uses, or you can go to carbide inserts. I use both. My turning tooling tends to be carbide inserts as is my boring bars. My parting tooling is nearly exclusively HSS. I do have carbide parting tools, but I find them harder to use, has shallower reach and they tend to catch and break on me.

At least start off with HSS tooling. You need to learn how to grind them properly, even i you do decide to go to carbide insert tooling. There are times when you need to grind a special profile tool and if you at least start out with HSS blanks for tooling, you'll develop the skills to make those special shaping tools when you need them.

Steady rest is a great addition if you can find one at a reasonable price. Center drills and a live center and a dead center are also fairly essential if you do anything much longer than a few inches away from the chuck. A follower rest is fantastic, but they're hard to find and expensive when you do.

He's a snap of my Atlas TH42 as it sits, you can see some of the stuff I was talking about:

IMG_3717.jpeg



fr_3846.jpg


The rest is mostly greases and oils, which the MOLO will tell you what you need and where to put it.

You'll need oil cans. I prefer the old "Eagle 66" cans:

fr_3827.jpg


Quality pieces. Easy to control, don't drip and the tips are sized perfectly to depress the ball oilers on the lathe and squirt in the oil. You don't need the ones like I have, but they do go nicely with the looks of an older lathe. Whatever you buy, make sure it's good quality or it will be frustrating to use and leave drips of oil everywhere you put it down.


Anyways, I think that's enough to get you off to a decent start. Or at least it will dent your wallet well enough to make you want to take a little break from it for a while.

Cheers
 
Last edited:
I have a set of tool holders for the Lantern tool post that was branded and sold by Atlas, it comes in its original metal box. PM me if interested.
 
Wow! What a response! You guys really came through.
I should have mentioned I do have tool holders for the lantern post, a full set near as I can tell. It also came with a 4 jaw Chuck and a new 3 jaw Chuck that needs to have the faceplate turned to fit. I will probably tackle that in the future once I get some time on the lathe under my belt. I also got a live center and dead center and a jacobs chuck with the correct Morse taper and a steady rest.
I will check the split nut and probably order a spare for the future. The acme thread looks real square and none of the gears have any chipped or missing teeth. The ways look good, no groves or dings of any kind and the tail stock and cross slide move along the bed without binding. From what I’ve seen, I don’t think this has seen a lot of use. It really just needs a good cleaning which I will tackle before putting it to use.
My plans are hobby use, light fabrication and general repair, bushings, maybe a shaft for something, nothing heavy and I am patient and will let the lathe work at rate at which it is comfortable.
I am ok with going straight away to a QCTP but what are the pros/cons of AXA versus BXA tool post? It would seem that the QCTP would be more rigid that the lantern style ( maybe even more important with 1/4” tooling) but I think perhaps I would prefer to start with 1/4” hss tooling due to it being faster to sharpen in the sense there is simply less material to remove.
I have watched Mikey’s videos on tool grinding, that was a great help and Mr.Pete’s videos were one the reasons I dove into this rabbit hole, so far it’s been a blast. Having the abilities that the lathe brings to the shop will really help me with repair/fabrication issues I run into in the past and simply had to “make do”.
I cant thank all of you enough. I have read and will re-read all of your responses for the experience and wisdom you all have offered, not to mention the welcome you have extended me. Nice to know there are still decent people in this world who would help a total stranger. I only hope someday I can return the favor.
if you think of anything else or can answer any of the questions I’ve asked above, please respond.
Thanks again,
Mike
 
Back
Top