Decisions-- mill lathe combo or separate units.....help with your thought

[Truefire]

In the market for a lathe and a mill. I've looked at the few combination options (lathe/mill combo units) available on our side of the pond. Considering I'm digging deeper prior to the purchase, I've ended up walking down the path of uncertainty at this point. Of course, I've looked at the Shop Fox and Grizzly units and although I think I could be somewhat happy with the Shop Fox M1018, the more I look and really think about it....to be honest, the stronger the uncertainty becomes.

I'm certainly no stranger to machines and know my way around them. However, I've never personally owned a machinist lathe or mill in my shop. I've worked with them but just do not own. I do however, on a consistent basis, have my hands on woodworking equipment and for a multitude of reasons, I now want/need some machining tooling.

My dilemma is, although I think the Shop Fox small combo lathe/mill would meet most of my needs, I'm just not sure about whether or not the mill head would get in the way when I'm using the lathe. I loved the idea at first about a combo unit but the more I think about it, not certain if that could be problematic. But then there's the beauty of the combo unit, giving me two machines taking up a minimal space in my already compact shop. I like the size and weight class of the machine for it would integrate into a specified location without hindrance, which is really pulling on me because I wouldn't eat up crucial space in the woodworking side of the house.

But, then I am taken back to whether or not the mill head would be in the way. The models that I have looked at, I think all of them have rotating mill heads but having not ever stood directly in front of one of these combo units and tried my hand on one, is part of the reason for the gray thought. Plus, I think my many years of standing behind a woodworking lathe is to blame for the uneasy feeling on pulling the trigger with the combo unit....it just seems like that mill head may limit/hinder some actions while working at the lathe. Of course, the artistry involved at various levels at wood lathes, invokes a more intimate approach around the chuck and that element is crossing over into this decision. I do love the fact that the top three choices on my list are all capable of running threads..that is a 'must have' for me.

But, if I'm going to spend $2016.00, I might as well just spend a couple hundred more and get the Midas 1220 Smithy lathe. The Smithy is obviously a much better machine. Upon quick glances, one can tell the lathe ways, vises and all are cut to much more exacting standards and finished with an impressive higher quality....it just looks like four to five times more machine in the realm of quality for just $300 more...so that element is no-brainer.

However, the more I read and probe around, many individuals are saying to just purchase a good mini lathe and not worry about the mill option to begin with. Their argument is milling can be done on the lathe horizontally when the need for milling arises and you'll have increased capacity that the mill heads could never muster to begin with. Furthermore, they are heralding mills on combo units are built inferior to a stand alone anyway. So there's that influence.

I think its just the aesthetic and beauty of two machine design nestled into one which is so appealing to me more so than the actual capability of. They're just neat looking machines...and wouldn't take up a bunch of space.

But wondering if I would just be better off with a decent quality, compact benchtop lathe at this point and worry about a mill later should the need arise. I'd probably have to scrunch some equipment up tighter in the shop but I guess it could be done. Sacrificing is my life anyway.

Does anyone own the Bolton mini 16x20 BT500 combo unit? How do you like it? Pros/cons?
Any thoughts on the comparisons? Not really necessarily having to own a mill immediately? Used the Smithy? Own one?

While we're talking about lathes would getting my hands on one of the vintage Craftsman Atlas and rebuilding it be advantageous? I know the gears on those are seemingly made extremely well. I'd love to rebuild one at some point. I guess you need an active lathe already in the shop to do that or are the parts needed available? I'd like nothing more than to make my own parts for an Atlas build but don't have the machining to do that but if the parts are available to the point that I could get one of the Atlas up and running smooth, I think if I had to have a lathe I'd much rather have that one. I just love the design flow and overall soft edges of all the older equipment....that and the fact there housings are bullet proof. I love older equipment and europe holds the larger part of my heart when it comes to uniqueness, make and aesthetic. But...that's another topic entirely.

thanks for your time, chris

 

[benmychree]

Want a lathe half made out of pot metal? If so get an Atlas; small lathes with flat ways are inherently less accurate with even minor wear.

 

[Truefire]

ok thank you, but did you read the initial part of my post? I was attempting to glean some feedback in that also.

 

[kb58]

There are a ton of threads very much like this one, but to save you time, there won't be much support here for any combo machines. They simply don't do well at anything, but that said, if you're only going to work plastic, aluminum, or brass, and absolutely don't have space, it'll do.

 

[benmychree]

I envision having to set up for each function; repeat ad infinitum.

 

[Truefire]

KB58, is it the breakdown of the vise setups and such which are annoying? Or is it the quality of the mill head on such machines? Or what I saw as being irritating, which was the cluster of both a mill and lathe head bunched up together?

 

[kb58]

It's a few things:
Not rigid, so you can only take very small cuts. For the same reason, they don't do well when machining steel.

It gets in its own way when using either subsystem.

Small capacity,.very limited work envelope.

BUT, if your situation can cope with the above, like for model making, or something that doesn't need precision or cutting of hard material, it'll be fine.

 

[mikey]

Chris, rather than focus on what the machine can do, maybe it might be better to tell us what YOU wish your machine tools to do. What are your plans? How big do you anticipate your work pieces will get? What materials do you intend to work with? How much space do you have? What is your budget? And so on ...

There are quite a few threads here on searching for a lathe or mill or combo machine. In fact, this seems to pop up every week, and it always comes down to this: a combo machine works but it is limited as a lathe and even more limited as a mill, and most agree that you are far better off buying a decent lathe and a decent mill that is sized to do the work you intend to do.

In all fairness, I do not own a combo but I have looked very carefully at several (one Smithy, one Shopfox and one I forget the name of) for friends with the same intentions as you. In every case, I saw too many limitations to justify the cost of the machine. It's your decision, of course, but I would highly recommend you define your needs first, then see if the machine will meet those needs.

 

[Superburban]

I have the shoptask 1720. For me, the main reason was for the 17" capacity on the lathe. I have used it to cut the center hole on many aluminum wheels. I have never done anything long, or where I need accuracy, but if it was all I had, I'm sure it could do fine. The big thing is that it is awkward to use.

I would never consider one like the shopfox M1018, that has one motor for both actions. I just cannot envision the drive shafts, to drive the mill going through the base, and upper arm. It would have to be locked down tight, to fight the forces trying to turn it at the swivel joint. I could be off base on that thinking, but the idea of separate motors just makes more sense to me.

Of the ones you mention, the bolton would be my choice. I see they added the handwheel for the carriage, which gets rid of the main complaint I have, mine I have to turn the handle on the right end to move the carriage.

If you do not intend to get heavy into metal working, those machines can do fine for you. I have even read of some companies doing more or less production work with those machines. I'm sure it was just a few operations, nothing big.

Like any machine purchase, you should take stock of your intentions, and think hard of any possible expansions on what you may do with the machine, and decide for yourself if it will work for you. Look at the differences between the machines, and decide if they will work for you.

If I was just starting out again, that bolton would get a long look from me. the same basic machine is sold by several different companies, compare them all before making the purchase. I do not consider them a toy, so you will not see me put you down for buying one.

 

[Superburban]

While we're talking about lathes would getting my hands on one of the vintage Craftsman Atlas and rebuilding it be advantageous? I know the gears on those are seemingly made extremely well. I'd love to rebuild one at some point. I guess you need an active lathe already in the shop to do that or are the parts needed available? I'd like nothing more than to make my own parts for an Atlas build but don't have the machining to do that but if the parts are available to the point that I could get one of the Atlas up and running smooth, I think if I had to have a lathe I'd much rather have that one. I just love the design flow and overall soft edges of all the older equipment....that and the fact there housings are bullet proof. I love older equipment and europe holds the larger part of my heart when it comes to uniqueness, make and aesthetic. But...that's another topic entirely.

thanks for your time, chris

I started out with a 6" atlas and it was my only machine for over 10 years. A lot can be done with it. unless the lathe is all worn out, broken, rusted, they do not take much to get a lot out of them. I bought it from a motor repair shop, that used it for 20 plus years, to do motor bushings, and other smaller work. It has some wear on the center of the bed, but still quite usable. It really comes down to how the machine was cared for over the years.