Do you need detents under gear shift levers?

[cvuxton]

I have a 12x36 ENCO lathe. Getting the gear shift levers to go into the top or bottom positions is not a problem. I took the top cover off and replaced several o rings to stop oil leaks. I noticed that the left side detents under the two gear shift levers were pretty shallow so I drilled them a little deeper. The levers never really stopped in the middle position and drilling didn't help. I tried slightly larger balls and still no luck. So my questions, do you really need the detent balls? Before I put the cover back on I can mark the proper position for the levers on the cover. When its under tension is the gear likely to shift without the balls? Or do I clean up, fill with JB Weld, redrill, and go?

Thanks,

Chris

 

[Ray C]

Without them, it's possible the machine will switch out of gear when you don't expect it. -Probably no terrible outcome there.

I have a 12x36 ENCO lathe. Getting the gear shift levers to go into the top or bottom positions is not a problem. I took the top cover off and replaced several o rings to stop oil leaks. I noticed that the left side detents under the two gear shift levers were pretty shallow so I drilled them a little deeper. The levers never really stopped in the middle position and drilling didn't help. I tried slightly larger balls and still no luck. So my questions, do you really need the detent balls? Before I put the cover back on I can mark the proper position for the levers on the cover. When its under tension is the gear likely to shift without the balls? Or do I clean up, fill with JB Weld, redrill, and go?

Thanks,

Chris

 

[epanzella]

I have a 12x36 ENCO lathe. Getting the gear shift levers to go into the top or bottom positions is not a problem. I took the top cover off and replaced several o rings to stop oil leaks. I noticed that the left side detents under the two gear shift levers were pretty shallow so I drilled them a little deeper. The levers never really stopped in the middle position and drilling didn't help. I tried slightly larger balls and still no luck. So my questions, do you really need the detent balls? Before I put the cover back on I can mark the proper position for the levers on the cover. When its under tension is the gear likely to shift without the balls? Or do I clean up, fill with JB Weld, redrill, and go?

Thanks,

Chris

I have the Grizzly G4003G and looks very similar to yours. My gear head doesn't seem to have any neutral position so when you shift out of one gear you immediately go into another. I would think if this happened at speed under load you could easily break some teeth and if a broken tooth falls into another spinning gear set you'll have a hell of a mess. I'm no machinist ninja but as a reformed drag racer I've seen plenty of auto transmissions grenade from a similar scenario.
Ed P

 

[Richard King]

I would suggest you contact ENCO as this sounds like a dangerous situation. Contact there service repair dept. Even if your machine is out of warrantee they may have a repair sheet for this. I would think you could literally destroy your headstock if it switched during any cut.

Have your model and serial number ready. I would not mention you attempted the repair right off, Just see what they have to say. Tell them your a member of the board and have asked us. For a PR issue I can't imagine they would not want to help you. If you get the cold shoulder get the name of the person you talk to and PM with it and I will call them. I used to be a Service Tech for them several years ago, so a call from me might help. Rich

 

[Ray C]

I initially didn't think of this as a potentially dangerous condition but after consideration of Rich's thought, I guess so. On my lathe, there's a good amount of travel of "neutral" before the next gear so you'd have to bump it pretty hard to get it back into any gear -but yes, for safety sake, it's probably a good idea to have that functioning properly.


Ray

I would suggest you contact ENCO as this sounds like a dangerous situation. Contact there service repair dept. Even if your machine is out of warrantee they may have a repair sheet for this. I would think you could literally destroy your headstock if it switched during any cut.

Have your model and serial number ready. I would not mention you attempted the repair right off, Just see what they have to say. Tell them your a member of the board and have asked us. For a PR issue I can't imagine they would not want to help you. If you get the cold shoulder get the name of the person you talk to and PM with it and I will call them. I used to be a Service Tech for them several years ago, so a call from me might help. Rich

 

[darkzero]

I have a 12x36 ENCO lathe. Getting the gear shift levers to go into the top or bottom positions is not a problem. I took the top cover off and replaced several o rings to stop oil leaks. I noticed that the left side detents under the two gear shift levers were pretty shallow so I drilled them a little deeper. The levers never really stopped in the middle position and drilling didn't help. I tried slightly larger balls and still no luck. So my questions, do you really need the detent balls? Before I put the cover back on I can mark the proper position for the levers on the cover. When its under tension is the gear likely to shift without the balls? Or do I clean up, fill with JB Weld, redrill, and go?

Thanks,

Chris

The Enco 12x36 is pretty similar to my PM, the Grizzly 12x36, & most other import 12x36s. I suspect you know this already since you stated you tried using larger balls. In the handle it should be the ball followed by a spring & a set screw. The set screw is used for adjusting the spring tension. I had a similar problem on my previous lathe with the half nut lever but in my case only the screw needed to be adjusted.

A deeper detent shouldn't remedy the issue unless the recess is very very shallow. A deeper detent could actually be worse causing it to be much stiffer. I suspect in your case the springs may be your issue. The set screw should not have to be screwed all the way in, if it was, the lever would be "locked" in that detent.

If your set screw is bottomed out then the hole may not be threaded deep enough or at some point they might have been replaced & the originals might have been dog point/extended set screws. Your springs might not have sufficient tension anymore and/or deformed. Try replacing them with higher tension springs. You might get away with using longer springs if that's all you have on hand but longer springs with the same amount of tension as the ones currently in there may possibly not make a difference & not leave enough room for the set screw therefore bottoming out the springs. Don't forget to apply some grease on the balls.


Moving this to the Enco section.

 

[cvuxton]

"The Enco 12x36 is pretty similar to my PM, the Grizzly 12x36, & most other import 12x36s. I suspect you know this already since you stated you tried using larger balls. In the handle it should be the ball followed by a spring & a set screw. The set screw is used for adjusting the spring tension. I had a similar problem on my previous lathe with the half nut lever but in my case only the screw needed to be adjusted.

A deeper detent shouldn't remedy the issue unless the recess is very very shallow. A deeper detent could actually be worse causing it to be much stiffer. I suspect in your case the springs may be your issue. The set screw should not have to be screwed all the way in, if it was, the lever would be "locked" in that detent.

If your set screw is bottomed out then the hole may not be threaded deep enough or at some point they might have been replaced & the originals might have been dog point/extended set screws. Your springs might not have sufficient tension anymore and/or deformed. Try replacing them with higher tension springs. You might get away with using longer springs if that's all you have on hand but longer springs with the same amount of tension as the ones currently in there may possibly not make a difference & not leave enough room for the set screw therefore bottoming out the springs. Don't forget to apply some grease on the balls."

As "DUH!" as it sounds I didn't grease the balls. I'll try adjusting the springs and greasing the balls before going in again. I can screw the set screws in pretty far so I think the threads are OK. Its an older machine so I think the next step may be JB Weld in the detents and redrill. Thanks to all for the advice. Chris

 

[GK1918]

I think I would get a feel first, insert ball, insert spring and push on the spring with a phillips or something
while shifting it. Maybe the "ways" are a little worn, where the balls inter and exit. We do a share of
machining mower transaxles which I think is the same as your problem. I know one thing these half to
be there or they jump out of gear. Most are 5 or 6 speed axles so there are 5 or 6 ball holes. One look
I can see the wear and what gears the operator uses the most. The fix, sharpen a drill size as the ball
and round the edges like a ball end mill, then its just dressing the holes up to give the ball a good snap.
sam