Dream Machines?

[Smudgemo]

Thanks for posting this. I just ordered my series of H.H. books and can't wait to see them in the mailbox.

Dale

Mr Hall's English English and metric measurements can be hard to follow at times, but I like his work and it gets me thinking how to approach work.


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[Leagle]

I have been going through this process of choosing a lathe and mill for gunsmithing. I have gone the complete gambit from considering used machines to new US made machines to high end Taiwanese machines to the Chinese impots. It did not take long to figure out that everything but the Chinese machines were way over-priced for all but the most serious applications. Eventually, I came down to choosing either a Grizzly or PM machine. After many, many hours of self-study, viewing the posts on this forum and with much help from Ray C (long before he became a rep for PM), I decided on the PM 1440BV lathe and the PM932PDF mill.

 

[wrmiller]

I hear you (about the cost), and am of a similar sentiment in that I'm not interested in buying a machine to work on a machine, nor do I buy the idea that a worn, used US machine is better than anything else.

But...when it actually comes down to putting money where my mouth is, I may back off the 1340GT: It's well over 7k with the variable speed option. Over 6k without. The 1440BV is cheaper, as is the 1440E-LB.

I do have a bit of time to think about this though. :LOL:

Bill

I have been going through this process of choosing a lathe and mill for gunsmithing. I have gone the complete gambit from considering used machines to new US made machines to high end Taiwanese machines to the Chinese impots. It did not take long to figure out that everything but the Chinese machines were way over-priced for all but the most serious applications. Eventually, I came down to choosing either a Grizzly or PM machine. After many, many hours of self-study, viewing the posts on this forum and with much help from Ray C (long before he became a rep for PM), I decided on the PM 1440BV lathe and the PM932PDF mill.

 

[zmotorsports]

This sounds familiar to my situation. Quickly getting sick of the corporate BS and everything that goes along with it, I am trying to get my wife and I set up to be able to take early retirement and work from our home shop/business full-time, currently it is only part time. I mainly work on motorcycles and automotive but seem to be getting a lot more small machining and welding jobs coming into the shop over the past year or so and besides working on motorcycles which I absolutely love, I would rather machine parts for customers than crawl around under their cars. The wife and I decided to sell our Smithy 3-in-1 machine and get equipment which would be more suitable for full-time work and have two dedicated machines to create my parts.

I cannot post up to the actual "use" of these machines, yet that is. Like you, I have been all over the spectrum before ordering my new machines from Matt @ QMT. I really liked the 1440HD but it is way overkill for what I would ever use it for, then I started looking at the 1440BV and spotted the 1340GT. I was grabbed by the 1340GT from moment one as it seems to be a cut above the others in overall quality and fit/finish.

We have an older Jet 1336 at work with the same exact open gearbox/selector and it is going on 26 years old now. I just have the guys smear a little grease on the gears once a year or so when it gets PMed. The guys in our shop are hard on the equipment as it is not theirs. I figured if an import machine can stand up to the abuse that our mechanics put them through they should last a lifetime in my home shop.

I would love to have the 935TV but it is outside of my budget as well as exceeding my space limitations. I have communicated extensively with Matt as well as Ray about the 45M/932PDF and chose to go with the 932PDF to be able to stay within budget and not loose a bay in my shop for equipment. I am still having to get quite creative with placement but think I have it figured out.

As soon as I get my 1340GT and 932PDF I can comment on actual impressions but currently I am just anxiously waiting. If time works out the way Matt told me I should be seeing mine around mid-May.

Mike.

On edit, I also wanted to mention that I have looked for over 10 months for used equipment but I seem to live in an equipment desert. The equipment that is available is either beat to hell or absolutely HUGE and not for a home shop. I want to get to making money with the equipment, not have a year long and expensive machine rebuild. I have been catching similar comments from people about buying import equipment as well as not buying a "real" mill. I simply don't have the room for anything larger and stepping to the 935TV would put me about $3500.00 over what I have already spent and I am slightly over my budget as it. I would be curious to hear your impressions of the 935 when you get it.

 

[wrmiller]

Hey Mike,

Not surprised to hear others are getting 'fed up' with the corporate world. You should hear Ray go on about it sometime. )

I am hoping to be ready in about 4 years, with a tentative machine budget of around 15k or so. But, like you, I likely won't have the room or requirements for full-sized machines, but need enough machine to get the job(s) done. But that is subject to change of course.

I am not even sure what exactly I'll be doing just yet, but will attempt to narrow the focus a bit in the next couple of years. I've road raced (cars and motorcycles) built competitive firearms, was a master mechanic on Porsche, LR, and MB (a while back), build and fit people for golf clubs, etc., etc.. Kinda a jack-of-some-trades, master-of-none. I end up doing all sorts of odd-ball stuff for friends and neighbors.

The goal is for this to be money over and above what we need to live on, so I'm not sweating paying the bills or worrying if my wife has anything to eat.

If the garage/shop is big enough, I may pop for a 9x48 mill and a 14x40 lathe, but for now I'm looking at the smaller machines as my entry point.

If I do get the 935, I will definitely post my impressions. And thank you for responding to my thread.

Bill

 

[nickmckinney]

30" of table travel on a mill and a 2" bore on the lathe is a serious junction to be at and probably the limit of a home garage. Working bigger parts than this gets pretty serious just to lift the raw stock.

When you do the math on what parts can't fit a 935 mill and a 1236 lathe its probably less than 5% of the jobs that would come to a home garage, so how many bigger sized jobs needs to happen to cover the price difference. Also the older I get the less I would want to be moving big heavy work in and out of a machine.

 

[wrmiller]

30" of table travel on a mill and a 2" bore on the lathe is a serious junction to be at and probably the limit of a home garage. Working bigger parts than this gets pretty serious just to lift the raw stock.

When you do the math on what parts can't fit a 935 mill and a 1236 lathe its probably less than 5% of the jobs that would come to a home garage, so how many bigger sized jobs needs to happen to cover the price difference. Also the older I get the less I would want to be moving big heavy work in and out of a machine.

The bigger machines would not be needed for larger work, but desired for stiffness/mass. My friend the pistolsmith (where I learned to use manual machines) never loaded anything over a few pounds into his his machines. If that. I do remember him fluting a stainless barrel for a bench rest rifle though...

Reasons why I don't have them now are space limitations and not wanting to move them. Ever.

Bill

 

[nickmckinney]

Haha Bill you are talking to the person with a 2000lb drill press, I love my machines heavy and my women on the lighter side :jester:

But really having a big monster machine for light parts, thats really specific work like gunsmithing. I watch the Jim Schroeder videos and what he does with that baby 1022 lathe makes me plan to step up my game. A good operator can make gold with a junk machine, a bad operator uses a gold machine to make junk.

 

[Ray C]

30" of table travel on a mill and a 2" bore on the lathe is a serious junction to be at and probably the limit of a home garage. Working bigger parts than this gets pretty serious just to lift the raw stock.

When you do the math on what parts can't fit a 935 mill and a 1236 lathe its probably less than 5% of the jobs that would come to a home garage, so how many bigger sized jobs needs to happen to cover the price difference. Also the older I get the less I would want to be moving big heavy work in and out of a machine.

Really good words there Nick...

A 1000lb square-column mill (i.e PM923 or similar) will cut a 10, 20 or 50lb hunk of metal quite well -and keep in mind that even the behemoth bridgeports of their day only came with 1, 1.5 and 2 HP motors. I use carbide roughing endmills on my square column and tear-up metal like a devil. -No sweat. Only a couple times have I wished for more Y travel only for the convenience but, it never stopped me from working on a part. I've never needed more X-travel for any reason. For everything I do, it's a perfect work envelope.

As for lathes, a 1440 is the biggest you can really go before the size starts interfering with versatility. Lathes bigger than 1440 tend to have lower top-end RPMs which will put a dent in your ability to work on smaller diameter shafts. Lathes between 9" swing to 14" all have roughly the same feature specifications. You got any idea how much a 10" chuck weighs? Heck, even an 8" chuck triggers the tendonitis in my arm sometimes so I use 6" chucks most of the time. -Those are kinda cute and fun actually.

... There's a big difference between home/prototype/gunsmith work vs industrial production. Use the right tool for the right job and you'll keep a lot of money in your pocket.


Ray

 

[mgalusha]

Bill, if you feel like making the drive you're welcome to come out and play with the 1440BV. I seem to recall you are in one of the L (Longmont/Louisville/Lafayette) up north, I'm a bit over an hour away, between Parker and Elizabeth.

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