Electric Vehicles on the horizon? Do your homework

[ErichKeane]

I agree. However, I'm less optimistic about our ability to determine the least harmful way of deploying this new technology vs. effectively replacing old technology without a lot of grief and hand wringing by everybody.

With that said, recognizing that we have to break a few eggs to make an omelet is part of the process - i.e., it requires patience and understanding and a willingness to solve problems with each other to get to a better place.

As for myself, I'm just not ready or able to make the switch. However, I can't wait for the day where I can get in my EV and have it drive (or fly) me to work while I watch or listen to Hobby Machinist member videos on YT.

I am curious of what makes you not ready to look at EVs next time you are looking for an new car.

Admittedly the used market is a little soft, though lease deals are really good as a result (our Niro has a $62/mo lease payment, which we plan to buy out at the end of the lease, for a total out of pocket of <32k). Additionally if you can live with a Bolt, they were sub-$20k new a few months ago.

The EVs big weakness these days are towing/hauling, and loooong range. The former is getting better thanks to the (albeit expensive) F150 Lightning coming out. The latter is getting better all the time.

The charging network is actually much better than I expected, not quite as good as the gas network, but it is getting rare to be more than 20 miles from a level 2 charger, or 50 for a level 3.

That said, I'm still wary of doing a long trip in the EV, which is one of a few reasons I am keeping my F250 for a while (in addition to heavy towing and hauling the pickup EVs can't yet do).

 

[Cadillac STS]

Just the sound alone would make me choose an ic sports car over an electric one.

Sound is nice at times but there is no way I would want a car that was really loud all the time. I would prefer something like the newer Corvettes with an ability to adjust the muffler from inside.

Regardless of sound an electric car with same horse power as a gas powered car would beat it off the line every time. The gas car needs time to spool up to speed and the electric can supply near 100 percent power immediately.

 

[rabler]

Sometimes EV's are too quiet. Driving my hybrid in a parking lot or deck it is pretty typical for it to be running on electric only. It is way too easy to sneak up on totally unaware pedestrians.

 

[Cadillac STS]

Sometimes EV's are too quiet. Driving my hybrid in a parking lot or deck it is pretty typical for it to be running on electric only. It is way too easy to sneak up on totally unaware pedestrians.

Starting in 2016 or so there is a law mandating a noise maker in the car below 18 mph I think it is. For that reason. My 2015 Volt doesn't have it and my 2016 Cadillac ELR Performance Edition does. Can't hear it inside the car but is sounds like a rumbling sound outside the car. There were concerns from blind people not hearing the cars.

 

[Janderso]

Maybe I’m just dense but how do you get nearly two tons of weight out one ton?

Maybe if you spell it tonne it all works out??

 

[matthewsx]

As far as the EV vs. ICE vehicles. It was once said by many "The automobile will never replace the horse"...
The Internal combustion engine reigned for over a hundred years, but the fossil fuels they burn are screwing up the environment and their sources are becoming scarcer. Thus the phase out of the ICE and the move towards renewable energy has begun. We are in a period of change, a change that is inevitable.

I’m never giving up my gasoline powered smartphone though

 

[Janderso]

I watched a video this morning on Toyota's research into hydrogen fuel. It is very similar to gasoline in terms of combustion with one exception, the hydrogen is highly pressurized.
The beauty is the C02 emissions is 99% less than a gas engine. The main exhaust component is water vapor.

 

[C-Bag]

I am not a bleeding edge adopter of anything. I’ve been watching EV since the late 70’s and while the premise was good the execution was pi$$ poor. But it was early and trying to adapt off the shelf. Lead acid batteries etc. ICE has always struck me as a stupid attachment to historical engineering. The worst kind, that patches instead of truly evolving. Relying on dirty fossil byproducts, destroying the environment when it could have gone to alcohol and synthetic oil and truly designing cars to be refurbished from the git go. Instead it was double down on conspicuous consumption and planned obsolescence where you have to buy new periodically because it was engineered to die coupled with generations of consumer propaganda. When you look back the car industry went about as far away from Henry Ford’s original idea of cheap reliable easily maintained TRANSPORTATION to a status symbol to project status and sexual prowess. WTH? Ford was an early driver of renewables and was exploring body panels and interior parts made from hemp. The model T could run almost anything. To say they lost their way is an understatement to me.

We bought a Volt in ‘16. My first American car in 43yrs of driving. It has been the most reliable trouble free and inexpensive to run car I’ve ever had. That is my main criteria for a car. My wife drives it to her work. Last I looked in its electronic logs over its life it’s run 89% on electric. Lifetime gas mileage is 250+. It’s a plug in hybrid that goes around 50mi electric. Then runs as a standard hybrid on gas getting 45mpg. We bought solar because the Volt pushed our usage up to where it made it worth doing. They gave us a free charger in the deal and also replaced our horrible waiting to blow main service panel for no extra charge. We pay $600 a year for electric and are 7mi away from Diablo Canyon nuke plant.

Not too long after we bought it my SO decided to go see her friend in Volcano through the valley summer. She got passed Paso Robles and had been on the gas engine for about 40min when the car told her there was a cooling problem and reduced her speed(!). As it got worse and the car told her to pull over and it shut down. She used the OnStar to call the Chevy dealer in Paso and they sent a tow truck. Turned out there was a loose hose connection that was leaking and all they had to do was tighten the clamp and fill the system and it’s been perfect ever since.

Yeah, I prefer simple. Less black boxes the better. But do you know how many people have come in the shop pi$$ed because their car “idiot” light didn’t tell them they had no coolant or oil? When I said there is no light because you have full gauges that made them even madder. They think oil pressure is how much oil is in the crankcase. They don’t know when the temp gauge is in the red that means it’s hot. My SO is better for me explaining this stuff to her, but she(and I) were grateful her built in robot was taking care of biz that day as she was out in the badlands with no cell service and would have tried to drive until it quit. And it would have.

 

[jbolt]

I am in the pessimistic camp.

I am not against EV's in any way. I do prefer the hybrid over all electric. In 2017 I bought a used 2004 Prius with 200k for $3500. I have since put on another 120k. There are some things I really like about the car and some I loathe but it still gets 45+ mpg and requires minimal maintenance and it is still running on the original battery.

With the rush to everything all electric I do feel we are forcing the cart before the horse.

I am moving to a state that passed into law the elimination of electricity from coal fired power plants by 2035 with no real plan to make up the loss in generation capacity. Currently in my area 80% of electrical generation comes from coal. There is also a push to remove several dams which will further reduce the available energy provided by hydro. What's left, wind?

There already have been brown and blackouts in recent years from lack of supply. Add in safety shutoffs during fire season. Adding hundreds of thousands of vehicles to the grid ahead of the infrastructure seems like a recipe for catastrophe.

The home we are moving to is all electric. No power = no lights, heat or water. Two winters ago my tenant was out of power for 7 days. They stuck it out for 4 days before they had to leave because the inside was 40 deg. I now have a 12kw dual fuel generator for emergencies. I will also be replacing our pellet stove with a wood burning stove. Seems kind of self defeating to run a fossil fuel generator with zero emission controls to charge my EV when there is no power.

I also wonder how this will affect other industries that rely heavily of diesel powered equipment?

I have heard that Washington state may be building a molten salt reactor which is really interesting nuclear technology. I hope they are successful and are able to change the perception of nuclear generation.

 

[Janderso]

Ford was an early driver of renewables and was exploring body panels and interior parts made from hemp. The model T could run almost anything. To say they lost their way is an understatement to me.

C-bag,
I always enjoy your posts.
The comment about Henry Ford, renewables and Ford lost their way is a profound statement to me.
I wonder if the market would have responded to Ford products if they maintained the original vision over the years.
I remember selling Ford remanufactured starters, alternators, water pumps, oil pumps etc in the 70's. His vision was to offer remanufactured parts to reuse and offer savings to the consumer.
He was a forward thinking old fellow.
You may remember the old parts books, you could buy every component to rebuild a part. Pins, diaphrams, impellers, bushings, bearings etc.
Today, everything is a new assembly. The only thing we sell that is remanufactured are engines and transmissions.