General Electric Triclad capacitor motor identity crisis.

[Jimw]

It have a ge tri-clad induction motor on a lathe. The model number is 5KC213AG224A
The model number break down to a capacitor start, 1 phase, NEMA frame 213, 4 pole motor.
There are 3 wires under the wiring cover.


The lathe was running on 440 3 phase power.


The name plates have x'ed out 115/230 volt, 23/11.5 amp, 1715 RPM, HP not readable.
It has been re-stamped 440 Volt, 3 HP, 3 Phase, 4 amp.


I was going to wire it for use with a VFD but I am thinking that since the model number shows this a 4 pole motor it must really be a single phase, and some one wired it to run off two legs of 440 3 phase. Confusing.


This motor is massive and taking it off the lathe would be a major task.



Attached Thumbnails

 

[Jimw]

I pulled the end off and pulled out the armature.
It does look like a 3 phase motor. Must have been rewired at some point.

i see it is a 36 slot armature and I can identify twelve windings.
I have pulled the winding connections out.


Now I have to figure out how to rewire the winding connections.
Any suggestions? I think I can determine the individual windings but how to figure the polarity of the windings?

 

[rdhem2]

WOW!

Where do you guys come up with these? From the evidence in the second picture, drips of dried glyptal, amber color on the motor label, this motor has been rewound at least once. If it was running on 480v then you are the owner of a 480v, 3 phase, single voltage motor. Better take your VFD money and buy a new motor and consign this one to the scrapper. Definitely one of a kind! Where is the starter that used to be with it. Heater sizes in the starter should also be a clue to amp draw leading to voltage determination. Three wires--three phase. 2-4-6 wires single phase.

Get her back in business and pile up the SWARF!

 

[Jimw]

Ah, the amber glyptal was the clue. Along with the restamped label. Looking at the stator I think I can pull out the windings, rewire for 220v and save this one from the scrapper.

WOW!

Where do you guys come up with these? From the evidence in the second picture, drips of dried glyptal, amber color on the motor label, this motor has been rewound at least once. If it was running on 480v then you are the owner of a 480v, 3 phase, single voltage motor. Better take your VFD money and buy a new motor and consign this one to the scrapper. Definitely one of a kind! Where is the starter that used to be with it. Heater sizes in the starter should also be a clue to amp draw leading to voltage determination. Three wires--three phase. 2-4-6 wires single phase.

Get her back in business and pile up the SWARF!

 

[Jimw]

Wired, labeled, insulated, tied and ready for potting.

 

[rdhem2]

Why Mr. Jimw: Your quick analysis of the problem appears to be spot-on. I congratulate you on being a better motor man then I. More patient anyway. My forays into motor windings usually end up in stinky smoky not real good situations. Fire and lightening sometimes followed the smokey stink!

Good eye being able to find the center taps of the windings. I must say I have never run into a dual labeled motor both 1 and 3 phases then rewound and presented as a straight voltage motor. A real one of a kind!

 

[Wireaddict]

Hi JimW, nice job! My only successful rewind job was on 12V universal type motor from a model train. Hope yours runs as good as it looks! BTW, I lived about 55 miles north of you in the Flint area until July, 2012 when we moved to N/W TN. Regards.

 

[Jimw]

The motor is too big to install in lathe assembled. And too heavy. I bolted the frame in reinstalled the armature and end caps after I had it back together I gave the shaft a spin and heard some thing rubbing. Always do things twice. Right? I should have put tested before mounting it.

so back apart again. I had to redress the wires. Not much room between the wires and the fan on the armature. So I am waiting for the potting to cure now and will try again.

 

[Jimw]

This time I assembled the motor to make sure it's going to work. A problem, no 3 phase power or VFD to test with.

I hooked up 220v Single phase to two legs and it turned slow. Spin it up with a rope while switching it on and got it to come up to speed. No capacitor to the dead leg, could not scrounge one around the house.

It would slowly loose RPM. I swapped legs a round twice and same results.

I only ran it a few seconds at a time as not to overheat it.

I would say its going to work once it sees 3 phase power.

 

[Jimw]

Some thing was wrong. This is my first encounter working with 3 phase motors.

After reading about rotary phase converters the motor should have ran without losing RPM.

I disconnected my wireing and made sure I had all the wire connected properly and started it up with the pull rope. Now it runs smooth. Measuring the legs I get 220v 220v and 215v. I must have miss wired the paralleled legs the first time.

Good thing I did not have to stuff the smoke back in.

Now I can run it for a long time and does not get very warm.