Have you used 5C collets on a lathe?

[erikmannie]

I am taking some machining classes the next few weeks and the students are allowed some free time to use various tooling in the shop.

Last time, I chose not to try the 5C collets (I chose to spend my free time learning to single point thread).

This time around, I have developed an interest in trying 5C collets for my new lathe. While I don’t have money now, it sounds like I can get a 5C collet chuck and a set of 5C collets and be in business.

My new lathe (which will ship any day) has a D1-6 camlock spindle. I bought 3J and 4J chucks so maybe I don’t need 5C collets. Space and money are very tight.

I’m afraid that I need to ask how a 5C collet is mounted on a D1-6 camlock spindle. Is this something that is going to strain my back, removing the 4J chuck in order to reap the benefits of a 5C collet, only to have to put the 4J back on? I want to go easy on my back.

Maybe somebody with little space and no money could get by with 3J and 4J chucks.

I have the 3J chuck in my current lathe and I do spend a fair amount of time fumbling around in order to get the work centered in the chuck (when I need to flip the part around and maintain concentricity).

 

[Nutfarmer]

Most lathes will use a bushing in the spindle that is bored to fit a 5- c collect with a draw tube through the spindle to tighten the collet. The chuck has to be removed to use the collet. The 4 jaw chuck will center a part as close as needed, but a collet is quicker. If not doing production ,use the chucks for a while . Then later on make a decision on the collets. It's easier to recenter a part in a 4 jaw chuck than trying a 3jaw . The 3 jaw will only make it to two or three thou. ,while a 4 jaw can be dialed in to almost zero.

 

[mikey]

I’m afraid that I need to ask how a 5C collet is mounted on a D1-6 camlock spindle. Is this something that is going to strain my back, removing the 4J chuck in order to reap the benefits of a 5C collet, only to have to put the 4J back on? I want to go easy on my back.

They sell 5C chucks in a D1-6 direct mount for under $200.00 on eBay. These mount just like any other camlock chuck.

Maybe somebody with little space and no money could get by with 3J and 4J chucks.

You can definitely get along without a collet chuck unless you are doing production runs with nominal stock. Keep in mind that a 5C collet has a gripping range of only about 0.005" so the stock has to be pretty close to dead on size for the collet to grab accurately and well. So, if you are doing a run of identical parts with nominally sized rod then a 5C is a good idea. If using non-nominal stock in a hobby shop and want to use a collet chuck then an ER chuck might be a better idea.

Just know that a 3 jaw is fine for first operations on nominal stock and a 4 jaw is potentially more accurate than a collet chuck, albeit slower. Given that you are so strapped financially right now, I suggest you stick with the 3 jaw for first op work and practice with the 4 jaw to gain speed. Leave the collet chucks for when you can more readily afford them.

 

[erikmannie]

My experience with the 3J on my 10” swing lathe led to the expected results: fast and easy for everything on the first chucking, but best to do everything in one chucking. I think that I will mount the 4J on my 10” lathe and try to use the 4J for most everything.

I will try the 5C collets at school, but my new 16” lathe will probably have the 4J on there most of the time.

All this squares nicely with my space and budgetary constraints; at some point a guy runs out of money and space.

I also like turning between centers!

 

[mikey]

I have Royal 5C collets and a very accurate import ER40 chuck for my lathe and I'll be really honest and say that for the vast majority of my work, a 3 jaw is my work horse. When I need accuracy for a second op, the 4 jaw comes out. If I have to work on a precision ground piece or something that is knurled or threaded then I'll pull out the collet chuck and it's almost always the ER chuck. While I rarely use 5C collets nowadays, they are a reliable work horse for many others so I do not discount them.

 

[erikmannie]

Super helpful responses!

 

[extropic]

There are multiple ways to use 5C collets on your lathe.

Probably the best is with a lever operated (or pneumatically operated) draw bar. That will let you open and close the collet (change parts) without stopping the spindle. Therefore, very much quicker for quantity. JFK still produces lever closers. I think they're about $1.5K for the whole set-up (no collets).

There is also a through-the-spindle draw bar type that uses a hand wheel to close/open the collet. The spindle must be stopped to change parts so it's slow and obnoxious to use.

As mentioned above, there are 5C chucks that mount on the spindle nose. They operate with a key so the spindle must be stopped (slow to use).

The advantage of 5C collets is that runout can be within a couple tenths and repeatable (assuming all quality components, properly set-up).
With a lever closer, they are quick to use. Also, some collets, called emergency collets, pot chucks and expanding mandrels are available to hold special shapes, diameters up to (not sure of max) 3 or 4 inches or hold by the bore..

The problem is, quality collets cost plenty (do your own shopping) and you'll need a bunch of them to cover the range. The nominal range is 1/16" thru 1-1/8". Add in square and hex and it's easy to spend $1K just on collets.

 

[projectnut]

I use 5C collets on an almost daily basis. My Sheldon lathe has a drawbar setup, my Seneca Falls lathe has a collet chuck, they fit the spin indexer for the mills and grinder, as well as the end mill sharpening fixture. Most of mine are Hardinge, with a few Shars in the mix.

 

[SLK001]

A 5C collet is made to be used with a draw bar thru the spindle of the lathe. That means that the spindle thru bore has to be greater than 1.4". There are adapters that mount a 5C collet with a chuck. However, that puts the work at least 3.5" of "stick out" from your spindle. That starts to add inaccuracies into your setup.

I use 5C collets all the time and love the accuracy they give.

 

[ThinWoodsman]

I also prefer to use 5C collets. Much less fiddling with holding the work - face+center drill with most of the stock back in the spindle, then loosen the collet and draw the stock out to meet the tailstock center. You have a lot more room to work with, there are no chuck jaws whizzing by your hands, and removing the collet chuck (to use a center or to switch to a 4-jaw) involves no heavy lifting so it's nice to have as your default.

As mentioned above, the tolerances are tight, so you'll want collets 1/64 above and below the common nominal sizes. I use a strip of rosin paper if I don't have the 64th collet. And while you're buying collets: hex and square collets! Plus collet blocks so you can move your work easily between the lathe and the mill vise.

Recently I picked up a 5C mount for those cheap import 4" chucks. This allows me to true rough stock without having to mount the heavy chucks on the spindle.

Of course, if most of your work is over 1" diameter (mine isn't), then you're better off keeping a chuck on the spindle and just using the 5C for the small, precision jobs.