How cheap should one get with carbide tool holders ?

[maxime.levesque]

After using home ground HSS tools for a while, I recently got a carbide boring bar, and was impressed by the results, so it led me to get a set of holders.

After doing some reading, I chose to avoid negative rake tools, and I noticed that most of the cheap sets had more or less the same insert types, and got a set of 7 holders, for parting, threading, boring, etc.

The reasoning for going with a cheap set, was that tool holding only has to have the correct geometry within an accuracy well within the capabilities of Chinese mass production, and provided that the metallurgy and hardness info is advertised and decent, it can be believed.

And finally that for certain types of "commodity" tools, the main downside is that you (the customer) has to do the quality assurance, which means that in the worst case, you return the tool at no cost.

I received the tools yesterday, and found a "quality assurance" issue: one of the tools had the insert screw hole off position by aprox half a millimetre, the screw hole misalignment prevents the screw from entering it's hole when the carbide insert is in place.

So, I returned the set, but now I'm wondering if my initial assumptions that led me to "go cheap" on carbide tool holders were correct:

1. are the tolerance requirement for tool holders "loose" enough that "bad ones" will be noticeable by "basement/weekend machinists" like myself ?
2. can the advertised metallurgy info be trusted (42CrMo in this case) ?

Clearly one of the tools in the set was out of tolerance, but the others looked pretty good to the eye: when the inserts are placed, there is no movement possible.

So I'm trying to decide if I should order a new "cheap" set (perhaps from another supplier), or if my assumptions are wrong and tool holders is not an area to go cheap.

 

[DavidR8]

I had a set of generic import holders for CCMT inserts. They were OK but nothing amazing.
I did a bunch of research on inserts and tool holder and decided to splurge on a Microtools CCMT holder and some name brand inserts.
Honestly I wasn't expecting a huge difference but I was genuinely surprised at the difference.
Because I changed two two variables I don't know which made the difference but I suspect it was a combination of both a stiffer holder and better quality inserts.

 

[Dan_S]

I've had 2 of these Glanze sets for 15 years. and never had an issue with them. I got my sets from Grizzly, but they don't seem to sell them anymore.

Mini Turning Tool Sets (ccmt) (set of 7 tools)

Chronos in the uk still seems to sell the sets.

https://www.chronos.ltd.uk/product/set-of-12mm-glanze-mini-indexable-turning-tools/

Imo, a lot of the big manufactures, are ripping people off for tool holders. They charge outrageous prices, for a small piece of semi hardened steel that's very easy to mass produce

 

[jwmay]

I buy as cheap as I can possibly find, and I’ve never been disappointed. Then again, the standards for precision in my shop are…”Does it work?”

If there were decimal numbers involved, I might spend more. But “does it work” has been sufficiently accurate in nearly every instance.

 

[maxime.levesque]

If you ever run the experiment of changing only 1 variable (putting a high quality insert on your cheap tool holder), it will be valuable information, and I hope you will publish the info on this site !

I had a set of generic import holders for CCMT inserts. They were OK but nothing amazing.
I did a bunch of research on inserts and tool holder and decided to splurge on a Microtools CCMT holder and some name brand inserts.
Honestly I wasn't expecting a huge difference but I was genuinely surprised at the difference.
Because I changed two two variables I don't know which made the difference but I suspect it was a combination of both a stiffer holder and better quality inserts.

 

[DavidR8]

If you ever run the experiment of changing only 1 variable (putting a high quality insert on your cheap tool holder), it will be valuable information, and I hope you will publish the info on this site !

I will have a chance shortly as I recently received my free TechMet insert samples

 

[aliva]

I've made insert holders from standard key stock, they did the job.

 

[DavidR8]

I've made insert holders from standard key stock, they did the job.

Yes, I suspect the difference I experienced was 99% due to the quality insert.

 

[davidpbest]

I am not a proponent of buying cheap sets of off-brand tool holders. Nothing more frustrating than when you can't get the results you are after and not knowing if it's the tool holder, the insert, or your technique. Just not worth the few dollars saved. If you are looking for good value tool holders and inserts, you might check out the lineup from Haas. I have a number of their tools and have tried many of their inserts, and have had great results. They are made in China, but with Haas behind them and controlling the manufacturing and QC, they are doing an excellent job. Here's the link - some of them are even on sale:

Shop Haas Tooling

Welcome to Haas Automation’s online tooling store. All Haas Tooling products have been thoroughly tested by Haas machinists on Haas machines, and will be delivered directly to your shop with the click of a button!

www.haascnc.com

 

[great white]

Meh, I'm running cheapy ebay holders with index-able inserts. Works for me, but I only tinker in my garage on personal projects that probably aren't to the tolerances that some on the forum aspire to. I usually buy a couple packs of insets when I buy a new holder and they last me for years and years.

If I really want to, I can work down to within a thou or two. That's on my old atlas 10F too.

Cost is as important a factor as every other variable to me since I'm retired and every cent I spend on machining has to come out of my own pocket.