How much taper's in your Sherline lathe?

[jwet]

I guess this is why I don't use these online forums much. There is too much anger and pendantry. I'm sorry you're unhappy with your lathe. There are about 20 ways to fix this and in the end it isn't very important- center drills find dead spindle center if they're are any where near center. Dial indicators are required on all but the most rudimentrary setups. Sherline lathes are not a $50,000 toolroom Hardinge. I don't need someone screaming at me in caps. I'll be dropping my registration shortly. Have fun guys.

 

[mikey]

I have around 40 years on the Sherline lathe and there is no way I know of to fix this, and it is important if turning without a taper matters. If you disagree then please enlighten me as to how you align a Sherline tailstock.

If a single word offends you then that's on you. I wasn't screaming; I was emphasizing.

 

[Forty Niner]

I guess this is why I don't use these online forums much. There is too much anger and pendantry. I'm sorry you're unhappy with your lathe. There are about 20 ways to fix this and in the end it isn't very important- center drills find dead spindle center if they're are any where near center. Dial indicators are required on all but the most rudimentrary setups. Sherline lathes are not a $50,000 toolroom Hardinge. I don't need someone screaming at me in caps. I'll be dropping my registration shortly. Have fun guys.

I have a couple of Sherline lathes. I would be interested in learning any tricks or procedures that you can pass along.

 

[jwet]

Here are a couple of ways to counteract this. There are many others if you spend a bit of time thinking about the root problem.

1. The very best way but not so easy is to make a fully adjustable tailstock built from the existing one. A very talented fellow and purveyor of fine accessories for the Sherline published a series of five videos that go through the process in fine detail- complete with nice jazz background music and real craftsmanship. Search for Tryally on Youtube- absolute master of the Sherline. The end product is close to perfect and would be a challenging but not difficult project. This is a great project for an end user but represents a tremendous effort for the few customers that really care about this- it might double the cost of the lathe. This is fundamental to everything about the Sherline- its really engineering. What Tryally basically does is saws the stock tailstock in half on the Sherline, adds an interposing aluminum block with oversized clearance holes and tapped features that gives you plenty of adjustment range to make up for any problems. Sherline looked at this at one time and couldn't find a market given the cost- great project and a good challenge. All the work can be easily done right on the Sherline Mill. The videos are excellent.

2. This second one is really about 3 solutions but it boils down to buying or making an adjustable tailstock arbor of some kind to accept the live center (or dead center) and allows you to dial out any runout down the lathe as measured. Its basically a MT0 female to MT0 male (tail stock size) with flanges in between with screws to adjust the tailstock center position. Sherline has made a series of products like this for 20+ years- not a bad solution. Some are for chucks and some are MT0, etc. Would be an easy project in leadloy steel complete with turning the headstock to turn MT0 tapers. I've seen guys put 10 thou holes in 25 thou turnings consistently dead center- like making needles. Again watch Tryally's video's- they're about a decade old but are inspiring.

The Sherline is extremely capable and is my main machine in my somewhat extensive shop. I especially love the Sherline lathe. What I find amazing is that the more experience I gain, the more precise the Sherline becomes.

 

[jwet]

Delete this post- made in error

 

[Nubbles]

I had previously turned a ~quarter inch piece of aluminum with tail support and ended up with 18 thou of taper over 6 inches!

But today I followed mikey's process and turned a 1 inch piece of 12L14 with about 4 inches sticking out from the 3-jaw. After cleaning it up I measured a few 1-thou passes. There was a bit less than 2 thou of taper, with no tailstock support and with the headstock key installed. I used ample cutting fluid (Tap Magic is all I have at the moment) and the basic Sherline turning tool that I honed with ceramic files.

Just for fun I did the same test with tailstock support. That gave me a mere 2 tenths of taper, though my micrometer is only a thousandths mic so all I really know is my measurements were within the same thou of each other. I was much more careful drilling the center this time than I have been in the past, and I think I got significantly less deflection because of it. A lesson I'll definitely take with me to future projects.

Regardless, I'm happy my Sherline isn't as bad as I feared. Thanks very much mikey for dropping all the knowledge you do across so many threads! It's incredibly useful for newbies like me to stumble across

 

[mikey]

Regardless, I'm happy my Sherline isn't as bad as I feared. Thanks very much mikey for dropping all the knowledge you do across so many threads! It's incredibly useful for newbies like me to stumble across

Thanks for the compliment, Nubbles! I think you are beginning to find that the Sherline is a very capable machine. It's main limitation is it's owner; the better you get, the better it gets. If I may, attend to these things early on:

• Lube the ways and adjust all gibs carefully. Once done properly, Sherline gibs tend to stay adjusted for decades.
• Periodically check that the headstock is aligned with the ways like you did. There should be zero difference in OD on each end of a turned 4" long rod. If the measurement on each end is not the same, you are not done.
• Good turning tools are the key to unlocking this lathe. Please trust me that this is so. Learn to grind good tools and I promise you will not regret it. Go here for basic grinding info and here for more details. If you have questions, ask in the model tools thread and the guys will help. PM @Z2V if you need tools now.
• If you don't have the threading accessory kit yet, go buy it. Being able to cut threads is a must-have skill so learn to do it.
• I highly recommend you buy a keyless drill chuck for your lathe. You won't regret it. An Albrecht is the best but a Rohm Supra will work just as well. I think a 3/8" chuck is fine.You can get the appropriate arbor from Sherline.
• Speed, feed and depth of cut are all inter-related. You need to sort out how. Manual machinists learn early on that there is a certain feel when the feed is just right. It feels like a slight pressure or push back when the feed is just right. The lathe will emit a slight hiss when the tool is cutting well with a good depth of cut; it takes time to develop this feedback. The way to learn this stuff is to turn stuff and pay attention to what you hear and feel when things go right or wrong, then figure out what you did right or wrong.

Good luck on your new journey Nubbles. If I can help, sing out.

 

[Nubbles]

Continuing this conversation is a bit off topic, so let me know if it'd be more appropriate to move this to PMs. (Though this seems like helpful information for others, and this forum doesn't seem too too strict about keeping threads on-topic?)

Thanks for the advice @mikey

I definitely keep the ways lubed. This and another post prompted me to better adjust my tailstock gib this morning. I'll have to look into adjusting the saddle and cross slide gibs as well. Maybe that will help my cross slide being stiff but still having ~4 thou of backlash.

I knew you had mentioned a user that made good tools, but couldn't find the post again, so thanks! I've read a lot of the posts on this forum about tooling for Sherlines, which is what prompted me to hone the tools I have. Even the little I've done has definitely helped.

I have the threading attachment, but I haven't committed to the disassembly needed to set it up yet. I would particularly love to be able to cut 3/4-16 threads to make spindle attachments.

What's the reason behind recommending a keyless chuck specifically (as opposed to a similar higher quality keyed chuck)? I took a look at the Rohm Supra-i (or is it -L?) and saw some used Albechts on ebay. It seems like I'd most likely need a jacobs to morse arbor. They do have a 3/8-24 version, which appears to be the same as the Sherline chucks, though the runout specified to be more with that version. Any particular mounting you'd recommend?

 

[mikey]

1. If the cross slide or any other gibbed structure is stiff then the gib is not adjusted correctly. Everything on a Sherline should be smooth but with minimal backlash. To set the gib, loosen the set screw that holds the L-shaped gib retention pin and pull out the gib and pin. I know you lubed everything but please clean and lube everything again. Sometimes a tiny bit of debris gets in there and screws things up. Clean and lube the gib and reassemble. Now, pull the cross slide or whatever structure you're adjusting against the dovetail opposite the gib and then gently slide the gib into place such that it is fully seated but nothing is tight. Now gently lock the L-shaped retention pin in place and run the cross slide through it's range of travel. It should be smooth and free, with no binding at all. If all is well, lock down the set screw for the L-shaped pin. If there is excessive backlash then this is likely in the clearances between the shoulder, thrust washer and handwheel assembly. Loosen the screw that holds the wheel on the shaft of the leadscrew and push it up tighter against the shoulder of the cross slide where the leadscrew comes out and that tighten the set screw. That usually takes most of the backlash out.

2.. Your tools are what will determine how good your lathe is. It took me a very long time to truly understand this. If you need a tool until you can learn to grind a good one, Z2V is a good source.

3. Don't let the threading accessory intimidate you. I slap that thing on a lot and it is capable of cutting class 3 threads all day long. You will often need to make something with a custom OD but with 28 or 32 tpi; no biggie. Just turn it, thread it, thread the matching ID and you're done. Bigger lathes can cut threads faster but they cannot cut them better, trust me.

4. Speed, my friend, speed. If you have not used a keyless chuck before you'll be so happy once you do. I won't use a keyed chuck unless I have to for bigger drills and never on a Sherline. I have two 3/8" Rohm Supras, one 5/16" and one 3/8" Albrecht just for my Sherline machines because I find them to be so much faster and easier to use. In the time it takes you to go find your chuck key I've already drilled the hole and put the drill away. I would buy the 3/8-24 mount unless you want to turn your own morse tapers. It is more than accurate enough for a tailstock drill chuck.

I just checked Amazon and ebay and found that prices for Rohm chucks are stupid right now. Not sure why. Maybe wait until reality reasserts itself.

 

[BiggerNoise]

Continuing this conversation is a bit off topic, so let me know if it'd be more appropriate to move this to PMs. (Though this seems like helpful information for others, and this forum doesn't seem too too strict about keeping threads on-topic?)

Thanks for the advice @mikey

I definitely keep the ways lubed. This and another post prompted me to better adjust my tailstock gib this morning. I'll have to look into adjusting the saddle and cross slide gibs as well. Maybe that will help my cross slide being stiff but still having ~4 thou of backlash.

I knew you had mentioned a user that made good tools, but couldn't find the post again, so thanks! I've read a lot of the posts on this forum about tooling for Sherlines, which is what prompted me to hone the tools I have. Even the little I've done has definitely helped.

I have the threading attachment, but I haven't committed to the disassembly needed to set it up yet. I would particularly love to be able to cut 3/4-16 threads to make spindle attachments.

What's the reason behind recommending a keyless chuck specifically (as opposed to a similar higher quality keyed chuck)? I took a look at the Rohm Supra-i (or is it -L?) and saw some used Albechts on ebay. It seems like I'd most likely need a jacobs to morse arbor. They do have a 3/8-24 version, which appears to be the same as the Sherline chucks, though the runout specified to be more with that version. Any particular mounting you'd recommend?

I know it's been a couple months, but if you do explore the threading attachment, I'd definitely recommend reading the advice that Mikey gave me in other posts. Shallow cuts and lots of spring passes, but without too much trouble, I was able to cut good threads into 12L14.