Is the Tormach right for me?

[SteveStash]

I have been shopping for a mini mill/engraver that will do the job that I have been doing on my Deckel pantograph. I have included a couple pictures as an example of what I do. The coin and electrode are about the size of a half dollar. I use a 15 deg. single lip cutter with tips [FONT=Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]as small as .002"- .004". The design is only machined .007" deep, but I need to retain the fine detail that I get with the pantograph. I am about to order a Tormach 770 and add a high speed spindle to allow me to machine straight to steel and bypass the edm. My Major concern is whether the accuracy improvements in the series 3 machines, will give me the performance and results I need. I've looked at the Minitech but cant quite pay that price. Well that is my story. Any thoughts, info, recommendations or preferably personal experience that you could give on the subject would be greatly appreciated.

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[Cheeseking]

Theres a guy on youtube- NYC CNC that is pretty into his Tormach. Seems like he would be a friendly and willing resource for information. Maybe get in contact w/him?


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[DaveSohlstrom]

I own a 770 and like it real well. My first CNC mill was a HF mini mill conversion. The 770 is like driving a Rolls Royce compared to the HF. The 770 does 10k rpm so with the right feeds and speeds you may not need the high speed spindle.
The only thing I did not like about the 770 was the mach3 screen set. I have changed to Mach Standard Mill screen set from. http://www.calypsoventures.com/downloads/msmproductionrelease.html Did not have any trouble setting it up to use the different screen set. Tormach uses an old version of Mach that you have to upgrade. I just have 2 file folders with Mach3 in them one from Tormach and one with the upgrade and Mach Standard Mill in it.

Dave

 

[GLCarlson]

I have been shopping for a mini mill/engraver that will do the job that I have been doing on my Deckel pantograph. I have included a couple pictures as an example of what I do. The coin and electrode are about the size of a half dollar. I use a 15 deg. single lip cutter with tips as small as .002"- .004". The design is only machined .007" deep, but I need to retain the fine detail that I get with the pantograph. I am about to order a Tormach 770 and add a high speed spindle to allow me to machine straight to steel and bypass the edm. My Major concern is whether the accuracy improvements in the series 3 machines, will give me the performance and results I need. I've looked at the Minitech but cant quite pay that price. Well that is my story. Any thoughts, info, recommendations or preferably personal experience that you could give on the subject would be greatly appreciated.

I've got an 1100/III upgrade (from II) with a DeWalt router as a high speed spindle. Go over to the CNCzone Tormach forum and read through it. Several guys doing what you are there, and you'll see similar examples and get a lot of friendly advice. One can debate the 1100 vs 770 all day long; my view is that if you're adding a high speed spindle anyway, why not have the bigger work envelope and power. Not sure what you mean by accuracy improvements- don't think the basic mechanicals have changed from series I. Leadshine steppers are much nicer, but the ballscrews are (I think) not different. Also, note that you may be confusing the 1100, which is currently in series III, with the 770 (which I think is still v1.0). If you don't want/can't afford servos, the Tormach is the gold standard for value and performance. (OK, I'm biased- but just look at the various forums. No comparison.)

 

[SteveStash]

Not sure what you mean by accuracy improvements- don't think the basic mechanicals have changed from series I. Leadshine steppers are much nicer, but the ballscrews are (I think) not different. Also, note that you may be confusing the 1100, which is currently in series III, with the 770 (which I think is still v1.0).

Hey I want to thank all you guys for responding. Here is a section of the Tormach website that gave me the idea that the 770 series 3 might have better accuracy.

"New Features: PCNC 770 Series 3 CNC Mill

For the PCNC 770 Series 3, we introduced a completely revamped axis motion system that combines high performance polyphase motors with state-of-the-art Leadshine® microstepping drive electronics. As a result, the PCNC 770 Series 3 CNC Mill provides increased torque at cutting speeds, faster motion maximums, and ultra-quiet performance over previous generations of Tormach CNC Milling machines.
Polyphase Motion Provides:

• Increased maximum motion speeds
• Significant Improved Torque at Cutting Speeds
• Lower Noise
• Improved Accuracy
• Improved Linearity
• Reduced Vibration

For more information about the benefits of polyphase motion, refer to our TD10223: Series 3 Design Analysis Whitepaper"

 

[Ed T]

For the amount of money you're planning to spend, I'd think Tormach would be willing to run you a couple of samples to show that their machine can do the job(or not). One issue would be, with the sort of amorphous shapes you are dealing with, how do you easily tell if it works or not. I could imagine a fairly diabolical test which would test accuracy and repeatability, but there's probably some kind of industry standard test for that that I am not familiar with. No substitute for a demo doing exactly what you want to do and, were I you, I'd insist on one.

 

[countryguy]

The sample run is a idea! They may even have a few youTube vids? Just a thought.

For the amount of money you're planning to spend, I'd think Tormach would be willing to run you a couple of samples to show that their machine can do the job(or not). One issue would be, with the sort of amorphous shapes you are dealing with, how do you easily tell if it works or not. I could imagine a fairly diabolical test which would test accuracy and repeatability, but there's probably some kind of industry standard test for that that I am not familiar with. No substitute for a demo doing exactly what you want to do and, were I you, I'd insist on one.

 

[GLCarlson]

The sample run is a idea! They may even have a few youTube vids? Just a thought.

Hundreds of videos from Tormach (a few dozen) or users (too many to count, special mention to CNCNYC!).

Tormach may not be very interested in running a part for you- while their service is legendary, they are making a machine at a price point, and at $10K -as opposed to $40+ - there's not a lot of room for that kind of selling. But, ask. You'll get an answer. However...if you locate a Tormach owner with the machine you have in mind (Tormach has a list, will share), my experience is that owners are very willing to give demos, run code as a trial, etc. The Tormach community has a lot of very experienced machinists: shop owners, serious hobbyists, etc. Most are very willing to share their knowledge or help with a decision- and will be honest about capabilities and problems.

 

[Cheeseking]

I would concur w Carlson. 10-15k might sound like a chit load to HSM guys like us but the reality is when I look at it thru the lens of my day job, its very much a bargain price point. Count me in as one wants one very badly but my relationship with swmbo is just now recovering from a BP acquisition 3 yrs ago lol!! Money isnt the issue - well ok yes it is, i guess im saying my wife and i are comfortable enough financially for me to just go and do it however we are so due to being very conservative with our $$. Steve the OP is fortunate to have a legitemate and established application. I suspect for most of us this would be an expensive toy. I am however currently crafting justification and horse trading scenarios with her in my mind to make it happen. (E.g. she can go get another friggin cat - which i absolutely despise- that i have to live with for 15 yrs kind of horse trading). We shall see. For now I will follow guys like Steve here and wish him well on his new machine adventure.


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[Cheeseking]

Stevestash did you ever pull the trigger on the Tormach? Unfortunately Im still in the same boat...concocting and rehearsing the initial convo with my wife.
LOL