John Kasunich.com Van Norman Inforrmation

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Van Norman "Ram Type" Milling Machines
VN_12_1.jpgVan Norman "Ram Type" milling machines are extremely versatile alternatives to the Bridgport style vertical mills that are most common in machine shops today. The unique features of the Van Norman mills are a swiveling cutterhead and a sliding ram. Combined, these features allow the mills to be used as both horizontal and vertical mills. The other outstanding feature of these mills is their great rigidity. Pound for pound, they are much more rigid than the common vertical mills, and they can take much heavier cuts.The mill on the left is a Van Norman #12. This is the most common of the ram type mills. Over 5000 of them were made, mostly during World War II. At 1800 lbs, they are slightly smaller than a Bridgeport. This one is set up in vertical mode, with the ram forward and the cutterhead rotated to point down.
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VN_12_Horiz.jpgThis pair of pictures shows how the Van Norman mills convert from horizontal mode to vertical mode. On the left, the mill is set up for horizontal work. The ram is moved back, and the cutterhead is rotated counterclockwise to a stop. Then the knee is raised to bring the work up to the spindle.

On the right, the mill is set up for vertical work. After lowering the knee to clear, the ram is cranked forward and the cutterhead rotated clockwise to the vertical stop. Converting from horizontal to vertical or back only takes a minute or two.VN_12_Vert.jpg
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This website is intended as a resource for owners and prospective owners of Van Norman mills. If you find a mill for sale, you can look up the specs here, everything from table size to overall weight. You can figure out when it was made, what kind of collets it needs, and who might have tooling or parts. You can also check out pictures of Van Norman mills, find a manual, or read about the history of the company and the different models of ram type mills they made.
Like all web sites, this one is a work in progress. I have gathered a fair amount of information myself, and other generous individuals have supplied even more. I am always looking for more info.
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Page design and contents copyright 2002 by John Kasunich. All rights reserved. These pages are presented as a free service for owners and prospective owners of Van Norman milling machines. The information on these pages is believed to be accurate but is not guaranteed. Please contact me if you find errors, have more information, or just have comments about this site or Van Norman machines.
Thanks for visiting.



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Van Norman Machine Tool Company History
When I started this website I planned to write up a history of the Van Norman company using whatever information I could find. Then Steve Steven sent me copies of a bunch of Van Norman literature, including part of a catalog. The catalog itself is undated, however an attached price list for arbors, collets, and other accessories is dated March 31, 1941. One page of the catalog is a short history of the company. I am not much of a writer, so the following historical information is quoted directly from the catalog:In 1888, Mr. Charles E. and Fred D. Van Norman founded the Waltham Watch Tool Company, to manufacture tools for use in the Jewelry trade. A few years later, the company was moved to Springfield, and its line of products expanded. In 1890 the first Van Norman Milling Machine was built and sold and since that time the principle efforts of the company have been devoted to the design and manufacture of precision machine tools.
The Van Norman Machine Tool Company, in 1914, announced the first of its line of Oscillating Grinders now used by substantially all of the important manufacturers of ball or roller bearings in the world. In 1920 the company began the development and sale of a line of automotive repair equipment and today ranks as the outstanding manufacturer of this type of equipment in the automotive service industry.
In addition to its present modern complete line of Universal Ram Type Milling Machines, the company also makes a line of column and bed type milling machines for general production work.
Since the company's inception, the growth of the company's engineering and development facilities have paralleled or exceeded the growth of the company. No efforts or facilities have been spared to make Van Norman products the finest machine tools that money can buy and the acceptance accorded them by the largest machinery, automobile, aircraft, and ballbearing manufacturers, is evidence of the soundness of this company's policy. The machine tools in this catalog represent the latest developments for this type of product in the machine tool industry.
I have very little information about ram type milling machines made prior to the mid-1930's. I do know that there was a model 1/2, and a model 10. Dan Buckman supplied this photo of his #10 mill. Note that it was originally designed to be driven from an overhead lineshaft by a wide flat belt. Click on the image for other photos of Dan's #10 mill (480x640, 72K).
If you have a pre-1937 Van Norman mill or information about the early ram type mills, please contact me so I can update this page.
VN_10_1.jpgThe ram type mills listed in the 1941 catalog are the #6, #12, #22, #26, and #36. Those five models might be considered the "WWII" mills. All of them were introduced between 1937 and 1940. Except for the #6, all of them were produced in large quantities during the war. (The #6 was temporarily discontinued during the war. It resumed production in 1946.) All of them were discontinued between 1953 and 1956, when they were replaced by newer models.
The "WWII" lineup of mills, supplemented by the #16 (introduced in 1947) represented the heyday of the "ram type milling machine". The chart below shows the annual production of all models of ram type mills. (Click on the chart for a larger version - 800x553, 17K).
VN_Prod_1.gifThe total number of mills made from 1937 to 1981 (44 years) was approximately 13,733. Of that total, over 11,000 were made in the 17 year period from 1937 to 1953. The production peak was 1,780 mills made during 1942, as the U.S.A. entered the war. During and after the mid-1950's, Van Norman introduced many new models. However, sales never approached the levels of the 1940's. In the 28 years from 1954 to 1981, they sold only 2,680 mills. The drop in production was probably caused by many factors. Van Norman mills were popular with the armed forces, and after WWII and Korea, military demand dropped. Meanwhile, the Bridgeport style turret mill gained popularity, and the first CNC machines began to appear.
In addition to machine tools, the Van Norman Company also manufactured a line of automotive service machines, including cylinder boring bars, brake lathes, etc. As the sales of milling machines dropped, the company began to concentrate on the automotive side of the business. The machine tool side was sold, first to Atlantic, who continued to produce mills, and eventually to Repair Parts Inc., who currently supplies parts and tooling for the mills, but does not make new machines. The Van Norman Company still exists, after several changes of ownership, but today they make only automotive service equipment.
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Page design and contents copyright 2002 by John Kasunich. All rights reserved. These pages are presented as a free service for owners and prospective owners of Van Norman milling machines. The information on these pages is believed to be accurate but is not guaranteed. Please contact me if you find errors, have more information, or just have comments about this site or Van Norman machines.
Thanks for visiting.

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Spindle Tooling For Van Norman Milling Machines
Van Norman milling machines used a number of different spindle tapers. In addition to standard 30, 40, and 50 tapers, there are two proprietary Van Norman tapers. The #6 and #12 mills, as well as some #16 mills, used the Van Norman "C" taper. This taper is more commonly known as "5V", which is the Hardinge designation. The other Van Norman taper is "2", which Hardinge calls "50V". It was used in some 22L mills, and possibly others. Collets and tooling made by Van Norman will be marked "C" or "2", while items made by Hardinge or others will probably be marked "5V" or "50V".
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5V Tooling
(Van Norman "C")

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The drawing below shows the dimensions for 5V collets. The drawing is based on a copy of an old Van Norman drawing supplied to me by Orrin Iseminger. Clicking on the image will get larger version (2060x1600, 31Kbytes) that should print actual size at 300dpi. Below the drawing is a photo of a 5/8" collet. Click on the image for a larger version (640x217, 19Kbytes). As far as I know, 5/8" is the largest size available in a 5V collet.VN_5V1_S.gif
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The next drawing shows a milling arbor for a 5C spindle. The main difference is the addition of key slots that engage the keys on the front of the spindle. This drawing is also based on a drawing I got from Orrin Iseminger, as well as measurements made on my own machine.
(UNDER CONSTRUCTION - Drawing not done yet)
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50V Tooling
(Van Norman "2")

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(UNDER CONSTRUCTION)
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Page design and contents copyright 2002 by John Kasunich. All rights reserved. These pages are presented as a free service for owners and prospective owners of Van Norman milling machines. The information on these pages is believed to be accurate but is not guaranteed. Please contact me if you find errors, have more information, or just have comments about this site or Van Norman machines.
Thanks for visiting.
 

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HomeHistoryModel
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Serial
Numbers
Spindle
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& Links
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Me

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Van Norman Milling Machine Resources and Links
There is now a Yahoo group dedicated to Van Norman mills. It is the best place to ask questions, gather information, of just shoot the breeze with other Van Norman owners. It is also a good place to go if you want to buy or sell a Van Norman mill or accessories.
Yahoo Van Norman Group
The official supplier of Van Norman parts and accessories is:
Repair Parts Inc.
2415 Kishwaukee Street
Rockford, Illinois 61104
Phone: (815) 968-4499
Fax: (815) 968-4694
Repair Parts Inc. has a limited stock of parts for Van Norman mills. In addition, they have the original part drawings for most Van Norman machines, and can make parts as needed. If you are a home shop machinist, you should be sitting down before you ask the price of parts for your mill. Obviously, parts for "obsolete" machines made in one-off quantities will not be cheap. They also have manuals for many Van Norman mills, and are willing to sell copies for about $50.00.
Sets of 5V collets are available from Tools4Cheap. They are an importer of inexpensive Chinese or similar tooling, and I have no first hand experience with their quality. A friend of mine has bought other tooling from them and is satisfied. At $175 for a set of 10 ($17.50 each) the price is MUCH lower than Hardinge (rumored to be about $80 each).
The following links are machines that are (or were) posted on the Internet by dealers who want to sell them. Many of the links have specifications and/or photos. In fact, some of the data in the "Models" page of this website came from these ads. I expect that as these machines are sold, the ads will be removed and the links will die. I'll try to remove dead links, but don't be too surprised if you find one that doesn't work.
Model #36 - Photo and Specs
Model #38MA - Photo
I would like to have links to machines owned by individuals here. Whether its simply pictures of your mill(s) in your shop, or in use, or perhaps the story of how you restored the machine.
Model #1/2 mill
Bob Haskell's webpage with a photo and specs of his nice pre-WWII Van Norman Model #1/2 (yes, one-half) mill. Bob has also posted scans of a Van Norman accessories catalog that dates from around 1940.
Jeff Greenblatt's model 1/2 mill
Jim Hearne in England scanned in a Model #12 manual. The pictures are quite large and take a while to load, but they are readable, and very useful if you have a #12 mill.
Model 1RQ mill
Dave Kochan's webpage with pictures of his model 1RQ mill. The Q stands for quill - it's one of the only Van Normans with a quill for convenient drilling and boring. A very nice machine!
More Links Wanted!
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Page design and contents copyright 2002 by John Kasunich. All rights reserved. These pages are presented as a free service for owners and prospective owners of Van Norman milling machines. The information on these pages is believed to be accurate but is not guaranteed. Please contact me if you find errors, have more information, or just have comments about this site or Van Norman machines.
Thanks for visiting.
 

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Spindle Tooling For Van Norman Milling Machines
As far as I know, 5/8" is the largest size available in a 5V collet.

I hav a 3/4" collet. I may also hav an 11/16" and /32" sizez above 5/8".

The 3/4 shell iz pretty thin, so I think it's the biggest, aside from specialz. 1 tang on mine iz cracked, but it still works.

AN early experiens I had revealed that the 5V duznt have a great grip on end millz. Wen I made my vise, I started the cut at .1 deep. After a few inchez, I realized it wuz getting harder to progress, so stopped. I coudnt see thru the splashing coolant that the 3/4 carbide endmill had been gradually pulled out uv the collet. So therez a sloping ramp on the side step to remind me every time I'm considering a deep cut to 'save time'.
 
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