Keyway with shaper

[rock_breaker]

Recently saw Abom79's video on using a shaper to make keyways but didn't get to finish it. I have been searching YouTube on the TV but no luck. All help will be appreciated.
Have a good day
Ray

 

[Norseman C.B.]

do a search for Abom79 on You Tubes search bar and scroll through his videos page, it's there

 

[benmychree]

A shaper is the least best way to do an internal keyway; been there, done that, the tool drags on the return stroke and gets messed up, especially in steel. In my shop, I had a Mitts & Merrill keyseater, capacity 1-1/4" X 12", it uses a single point tool, pulled in a slotted bar with a wedge behind it for feeding. The shop that I apprenticed in had one with a 2-1/2" X 24" capacity, and they made them bigger than that ---

 

[Lo-Fi]

Is probably what you're looking for. As said above, best way is just Google search for "Abom79 shaper keyway".

It may not be the best way, but if that's the tool you've got and the other choice is not doing it... He seems to get some nice results either way.

 

[Dabbler]

@benmychree I appreciate your opinion, and certainly a keyseater is the way to go for those that have the room and can afford them. Stefan Gotteswinter and I would both disagree that making an internal keyway on a shaper is in any way a problem. He did it that way for many years until he had to make room for his CNC router.

I have 2 shapers and I find that it is a great way to make an internal keyway, plus it is entertaining to watch! Everyone has different skill sets and tooling, and it is the way I prefer. I've never had a tool get messed up on the return stroke. Perhaps it is in the grind?

 

[benmychree]

The biggest problem is that the clapper box must be secured, so there is no relieving the tool on the return stroke. Also I note that Abom is cutting on the bottom of the hole, when established practice is to do the cutting on the top so that the lost motion of the slide cannot allow the cutter to hog in or drop. My keyways these days are either done with broaches or my 6" P&W vertical shaper, it is equipped with a clapper box to work in the vertical plane. As to tool grinding, I use minimal clearances and some back rake, the same as with slotting tools. As you can see, I like shapers too, having owned 3 of them, including the one that I have now, a 20-24 Gould & Eberhardt universal from 1957, I do not imagine that very many were built after that time, and yes they are fun to watch, as is most any machine tool.

 

[ErichKeane]

The biggest problem is that the clapper box must be secured, so there is no relieving the tool on the return stroke. Also I note that Abom is cutting on the bottom of the hole, when established practice is to do the cutting on the top so that the lost motion of the slide cannot allow the cutter to hog in or drop. My keyways these days are either done with broaches or my 6" P&W vertical shaper, it is equipped with a clapper box to work in the vertical plane. As to tool grinding, I use minimal clearances and some back rake, the same as with slotting tools. As you can see, I like shapers too, having owned 3 of them, including the one that I have now, a 20-24 Gould & Eberhardt universal from 1957, I do not imagine that very many were built after that time, and yes they are fun to watch, as is most any machine tool.

Do you really have to lock the clapper? My understanding is you simply need to prevent it from lifting during the 'push stroke'. Presumably one could accomplish this with sufficient counter-weight on the front of the tool post, which would allow it to shift 'up' when required. I think I saw a youtube video of someone doing that by making their internal-cutting-tool particularly long, and not having the tool at the end.

Also, I'm not sure I get the bit about cutting on the top, can you elaborate a bit more?

 

[ErichKeane]

Do you really have to lock the clapper? My understanding is you simply need to prevent it from lifting during the 'push stroke'. Presumably one could accomplish this with sufficient counter-weight on the front of the tool post, which would allow it to shift 'up' when required. I think I saw a youtube video of someone doing that by making their internal-cutting-tool particularly long, and not having the tool at the end.

Also, I'm not sure I get the bit about cutting on the top, can you elaborate a bit more?

To answer some of my own question, according to the Barritt book:

"Note: When machining an internal keyway which requires a long bar for carrying the tool, it is advisable to mount the tool upside down so that the keyway will be cut in the top fo the hole and the tool will cut on the back stroke of the ram rather than on the forward stroke. Some operators prefer thismethod for all cases, but due to the fact that the tool does not swing away from teh work on the return stroke, a number of difficulties are set up which render it objectionable."

 

[ErichKeane]

To answer some of my own question, according to the Barritt book:

"Note: When machining an internal keyway which requires a long bar for carrying the tool, it is advisable to mount the tool upside down so that the keyway will be cut in the top fo the hole and the tool will cut on the back stroke of the ram rather than on the forward stroke. Some operators prefer thismethod for all cases, but due to the fact that the tool does not swing away from teh work on the return stroke, a number of difficulties are set up which render it objectionable."

A FURTHER interesting quote "This is a job for a keyseating machine or a slotter, but there are times when neither of these machines is available".

It ends up being in the same 'Job Ticket' as before (i've been trying to read through this book on my breaks), but the first message I 'looked ahead' when I remembered I should to answer my previous question.

 

[benmychree]

Do you really have to lock the clapper? My understanding is you simply need to prevent it from lifting during the 'push stroke'. Presumably one could accomplish this with sufficient counter-weight on the front of the tool post, which would allow it to shift 'up' when required. I think I saw a youtube video of someone doing that by making their internal-cutting-tool particularly long, and not having the tool at the end.

Also, I'm not sure I get the bit about cutting on the top, can you elaborate a bit more?

Yes, you do have to lock the clapper box, the tendency is if cutting on the bottom the tool wants to rise due to it's distance from the pivot point of the clapper and in cutting on top the tool wants to rise and bind up in the cut. Look at the clapper box on nearly any shaper; there are setscrews usually on both sides of the clapper box, with matching divots in the clapper to lock it down, they are there for a purpose. I just read a chapter in Lewis E. King's book Machine Shop Operation booklet #3 Shaper Operation, published by Macmillan, that sometimes keyway cutting is done on the return stroke rather than the normal cutting stroke, I wonder that it may be better to pull the cut than pushing the cut, that is what keyseaters do.