Kingston HL-1500 ..... When is a lathe too big?

[jwmay]

From my standpoint, running a 1660 at work is not nearly as fun as running my Atlas at home. Everything is easy to lift at home. I don't have to brace myself before sliding the tailstock up. A chuck change takes 30 seconds. The tooling is lighter, and won't break my foot if I drop it. It's quieter. Now I can't take big bites at home either. But that tradeoff is worth it, with no production deadlines.

 

[MrWhoopee]

I'll weigh in here just to say that if you buy the Kingston, before long you will find yourself looking/wishing for something smaller. I have an SB Heavy 10, and while I drool over the 14-15 in. lathes, only once has my SB been too small (and then by only 1/4 in.). I would like to have a larger lathe as an addition, but not as a replacement.

Others have mentioned the cost of tooling and powering that Kingston. Whatever you might save on the initial purchase will be consumed, and then some. I understand the temptation, but since you have a lathe now you can afford to continue to wait for something more practical. Just keep cash on hand and be prepared to drop everything at the very instant that something shows up. Trying to get a seller to wait until you can get to the bank usually ends with someone else getting the deal.

I'll also mention that power consumption is no small issue. It only took 1 month of modest use with my 7.5 hp RPC for mama to scream about the electric bill.

 

[Aaron_W]

I'll weigh in here just to say that if you buy the Kingston, before long you will find yourself looking/wishing for something smaller. I have an SB Heavy 10, and while I drool over the 14-15 in. lathes, only once has my SB been too small (and then by only 1/4 in.). I would like to have a larger lathe as an addition, but not as a replacement.

Others have mentioned the cost of tooling and powering that Kingston. Whatever you might save on the initial purchase will be consumed, and then some. I understand the temptation, but since you have a lathe now you can afford to continue to wait for something more practical. Just keep cash on hand and be prepared to drop everything at the very instant that something shows up. Trying to get a seller to wait until you can get to the bank usually ends with someone else getting the deal.

I'll also mention that power consumption is no small issue. It only took 1 month of modest use with my 7.5 hp RPC for mama to scream about the electric bill.

Agree there are hidden costs to large machines, tooling costs more, you may need accessories to move that big tooling, it costs more to run, not only electricity but also lubricants, parts etc. Then there is moving it into your shop. Most people can manage up to 12x36 / Bridgeport, but much bigger than that and you start factoring in the cost of rental equipment or even hiring riggers.

Ideally you have machines that can do your largest regular work, plus a little bit extra for the outlier projects. Just a guess, but the average home shop is probably actually over served by a 12x36" lathe which is why that is such a popular size. How many people really turn something 4-6" in diameter or longer than 24-36" in a home shop? I bet 2" diameter and 12-20" in length is a big part for many who own a 12x36 lathe.

The people who can actually make use of a 16" or larger lathe probably also have access to heavy equipment and the experience of moving heavy things to affordably get it into their shop.

So yes, if you have a good 14x40" lathe you might be able to make a watch, but it is a poor machine choice if you are a watch maker.

 

[acruxksa]

Well, I guess Bob's must have a second Kingston HL1500 they're selling. That looks similar to the one they sold last November. Machines like that, at that price, usually don't stay for sale for more than a few hours, let alone a few months in Alaska! Good luck with the search.

I don't have an answer for that, just that the lathe was for sale from a step-father that passed away in November. I agree that they don't usually last long, but it was posted just a week or so ago, but with different pictures from the ones I initially had and for $1k less than I was originally quoted.

oh, preloading springs on a garage door is cake..

It's the simple things that will kill you. Seriously though, standing on a ladder winding a 48" long spring with two 3/8" x 16" bars isn't something I will ever do again.

I really do appreciate everyone's comments and am still torn on the lathe. However, as with a previous 12x36 I had a chance at recently, it's not exactly what I want and would require too many compromises and accommodations. Some of which I don't see as bad things. I really appreciate the idea of replacing the motor with a 5hp 3 phase and using the 10hp motor as a rotary phase converter. Excellent idea even if the motor HP wasn't the same in the original.

In the end, the ability to move my equipment around is probably the most important consideration. That and tooling would likely cost as much as a new 1340 GT

Thanks all, I'm going to keep looking. Just getting frustrated with the limited options up here.

 

[RJSakowski]

I really don't understand the need/desire for large iron.

A lathe needn't be larger than the largest anticipated work. I understand that having several tons of iron increases rigidity and solves some machining problems with brute force but there is ample evidence that a small lathe user can overcome these issues and still turn out some excellent work.

There are problems with owning a multi-ton lathe which must be dealt with: they are physically large and they esquire a suitable foundation to stand on. Moving them around requires some heavy equipment and occurs with risk, probably best left to professionals. Unless you are into weight lifting, safely changing a chuck will require some sort of gantry and lifting mechanism.

Large machines require significant power to run and at a significant cost. Power requirements for a 10 hp three phase motor would strain most residential electrical service. Beefing up that service to handle the demand isn't cheap.

While you can do small work on a large machine, you aren't going to be turning that spindle at 3K rpm. Tooling costs for a large lathe are going to be considerably more than for a small lathe and maintenance costs as well. By them time you consider all of these factors, that super bargain that you find irresistible may be resistible after all.

 

[acruxksa]

I really don't understand the need/desire for large iron.

A lathe needn't be larger than the largest anticipated work. I understand that having several tons of iron increases rigidity and solves some machining problems with brute force but there is ample evidence that a small lathe user can overcome these issues and still turn out some excellent work.

There are problems with owning a multi-ton lathe which must be dealt with: they are physically large and they esquire a suitable foundation to stand on. Moving them around requires some heavy equipment and occurs with risk, probably best left to professionals. Unless you are into weight lifting, safely changing a chuck will require some sort of gantry and lifting mechanism.

Large machines require significant power to run and at a significant cost. Power requirements for a 10 hp three phase motor would strain most residential electrical service. Beefing up that service to handle the demand isn't cheap.

While you can do small work on a large machine, you aren't going to be turning that spindle at 3K rpm. Tooling costs for a large lathe are going to be considerably more than for a small lathe and maintenance costs as well. By them time you consider all of these factors, that super bargain that you find irresistible may be resistible after all.

You don't understand because you don't live in Alaska. Quite simply, lathes are as rare as hens teeth. My options are either to purchase a new PM lathe with the rather large shipping charge (not PM's fault, just a cost of living in the Greatland ) or find a use lathe locally.......Used lathes in the 12x36 or 13x40 or 14x40 range just don't come up for sale. This means I have to consider other options. One thing I know is that I'm done with atlas and the "old" hobby lathes. my Atlas 10" was a great lathe to learn on, but I'm running into issues with the limited spindle bore.

The sad fact is that shipping for the tooling on the Kingston Lathe would probably add up to the cost of the lathe alone.

 

[Aukai]

What size is the tool post, and what holders does it use?

 

[jwmay]

I thought you said you were gonna keep looking.
But since you mentioned it. If your option is a new PM machine or a massive old lathe. I'd go for the new PM machine. Or Grizzly. I really liked my Grizzly. But not this year ok, because I might want to order myself one, and there's too many people on the list already. Lol.
But if you could get the massive lathe for like $500, then it might be ok. Seems to take a LOT of money to repair those old ones.

 

[Cadillac STS]

Random thought.. Since you are in Alaska and it may get 50 below zero or colder would you need a block heater like for a car on the gearbox of a large lathe like that? Easily doable just wondered if that is what people do with large machines unless in climate controlled buildings.

 

[RJSakowski]

You don't understand because you don't live in Alaska. Quite simply, lathes are as rare as hens teeth. My options are either to purchase a new PM lathe with the rather large shipping charge (not PM's fault, just a cost of living in the Greatland ) or find a use lathe locally.......Used lathes in the 12x36 or 13x40 or 14x40 range just don't come up for sale. This means I have to consider other options. One thing I know is that I'm done with atlas and the "old" hobby lathes. my Atlas 10" was a great lathe to learn on, but I'm running into issues with the limited spindle bore.

The sad fact is that shipping for the tooling on the Kingston Lathe would probably add up to the cost of the lathe alone.

I can certainly understand the spindle bore issue. I really like my Grizzly G0602 with it's 1" spindle bore vs, the 1/2" on my Atlas/Craftsman lathe. I if were building rifles though, it wouldn't work for me. As I said, the size of the lathe is dictated by the anticipated work.

Alaska isn't the only machine desert in the country. There aren't that many local sources of industrial machines where I live. I occasionally check Facebook Marketplace, Craigslist, etc. with very few offerings turning up. There is a local auction house but they do mostly on line auctions and machine tool refurbisher/resellers haunt the site and usually set the bottom line bid. Madison had a history of machine manufacturers at one time but that largely dried up years ago. More than a few educational institutions are getting out of the manual arts training (a sad story in its own right) but thet are selling through on line auction houses with resellers usually ending up with winning the bid.

I have done a few "too good to pass up" deals myself in the past and they usually turn out to cost me far more than the original purchase price to implement. My suggestion would be to sit down with pencil and paper and determine what the total cost of the acquisition would be.