Lathe Cutting Tools

Mikey and Mopar,

If you guys want to test drive the tangential tool, I can loan you mine. Let me know, send me your mailing address. 81stfacp@gmail.com

I have not used mine since I hardly use the 9x20 lathe for any work other than turning cartridge necks.

Nez
 
Moper361 said:
Has anyone here ever tried these,I'm not trying to pedal these or promote them but I have been watching and reading reviews on these and I'm very tempted to try them ,Seems there are so many uses and options these would be good for and grinding the tips seems reasonably simple .Ive always used lathe tools with inserts and have quite a selection but I have to say this looks like a better option and eliminates buy tips al the time .
Here is a you tube link from eccentric engineering who seem to be the makers of it

Has anyone here had experience with these lathe tool holders they would be willing to share on here


Regards Nat
Click to expand...
1/2" tool with grinding jig is $95 shipped.
I have one but have not used it much as I have a lot of cutting tools.
Mikey if you want to try it and give a report I can send to you.
 
Mikey I think you forgot to convert from Aussie dollars to Federal Reserve IOU's.
 
Banbam Dickey ,If I lived in US I'd definatly. Take you up on the offer to try the Tanginal tool holder and be happy to pay shipping but ,Unfortunatly I live in Chiang mai Thailand and by I pay shipping etc to borrow one there would be fair chance I could purchase one with a bit of added cash .I really appreciate the offer thank you .at the end of the day I think I will just buy the right hand and left hand pair of tool holders with sharpening jig and get them delivered to my fathers place and collect them and hand carry back home to Thailand when I'm in Australia next ,as if I order and get sent direct to Thailand I'll get hit with taxes and duties on top of purchase price .
 
Moper361 said:
Has anyone here ever tried these,I'm not trying to pedal these or promote them but I have been watching and reading reviews on these and I'm very tempted to try them ,Seems there are so many uses and options these would be good for and grinding the tips seems reasonably simple .Ive always used lathe tools with inserts and have quite a selection but I have to say this looks like a better option and eliminates buy tips al the time .
Here is a you tube link from eccentric engineering who seem to be the makers of it

Has anyone here had experience with these lathe tool holders they would be willing to share on here


Regards Nat
Click to expand...


I have a Diamond tool holder which I sometimes use. Honestly, I haven't played with it enough to really figure out what it's best for, but
I tend to use it for roughing out when I have a lot of material to remove. The actual tool is a HSS blank, so part of tool prep is to round
off one corner a bit to create a reasonable nose radius. I did that, but I was in too much of a hurry to put more than a small radius on it, so surface
finish isn't great with mine. I imagine I would get better results if I put a little effort in. :) Other than that, I think it's a useful tool. The
tool holder is fairly robust, so rigidity doesn't seem to be a problem. As Mikey pointed out, one of the downsides is cost, and the fact
that tool holders for right and left hand turning are required, which makes them even more expensive if both are needed. As others have
pointed out, I think the main advantage of these tools are their simplicity sharpening-wise, and once purchased, tool bits are cheap and
last a long time. I bought mine partly for that reason, and partly because I was curious: a friend from work showed his to
me.

So, are they worth it? I don't regret buying mine, but I'm kind of a lazy guy and I use Arthur Warner tooling all the time because it's simple
to deal with as well and I get good results with it.
 
Nez, Duane, thank you so much for your generous offer to loan your tools for a trial but I have to refuse, for the following reasons.

If I did an honest trial and reported it then it would be no different than a report from anyone else. But if I did a comparison between that tool and my modified-for-each-material class tools then it would not be a fair test. I'm not sure my tools would function better but I suspect they will, and an honest report could potentially hurt this guy. I don't want do that and I can't lie so it is best not to open the can of worms at all, I think.

I honestly like that the tangential tool allows beginners to use HSS from the get go because it is so easy to grind. This helps the user of a small lathe to get started and it helps the seller, a win-win. We do not need some bozo (me) to upset this for no real reason at all.

I may one day buy my own tool to satisfy my curiosity and I will definitely run comparison tests at that time but I have long since decided that the results would not be reported by me.
 
I thought I'd add one more comment about low-power lathes and carbide. Remember I only use Carbide 50% of the time.... but...

I have a 12X37 1.5 HP lathe. that is considered by some to be too' low-power' to run carbide tooling at all. My maximum speed is around 1300, which is pretty slow SFPM for smaller diameters (most of my work).

That's why I use positive rake tooling - it needs lower HP to do the job and needs lower SFPM to do a good job. Particularly honed aluminum - specific tooling works particularly well, even in soft steel.

I was intrigued about the diamond tool holder. I am a tool addict (really?!!) and have wanted to try out one of these holders for a long time now. Trouble is, I've been grinding HSS for 35 years now, and don't need 'training wheels'. The other advantage of the diamond I can't use: taking very deep cuts, because with my low HP, I just can't.

Thanks for the link to gadgetbuilder.com. I might just build a tangential toolder just to to try out!
 
seems there is quite a bit of common interest in the Tanginal tool holder however we all seem be of same opinion on price ,I think I will have a go at making one in the future rather than buy as I do hav mill ect so have the resorces to make one
 
I emailed Gary who is the owner of Eccentric Engineering asking him if he could address some of the questions, following is his response.

Thanks for your email, I’ll try and respond to the comments below as best I can.

Cost. If the tool is purchased directly through the website shop in Australia the cost of the tool holder mentioned below would only be US$79.50 (AU$110), plus US$16.00 for airmail shipping to anywhere in the USA. There may be some import duty upon arrival but I’m not sure what that would be, if any.

Over the years I’ve had a great many customers coming up to me at shows to say how happy they are with the tool they bought 20+ years ago and that it still works just as well as the day they bought it. In that regard I think $80 is pretty good value.

The side and front clearance angles are set at 10 degrees which is a little more than usual (around 8 degrees) so that there is enough clearance between the clamp and the workpiece.

If the clearance angles are lessened the tool bit would have to sit higher up in the holder to compensate for it, thus reducing rigidity. Otherwise the clamp would foul the workpiece when cutting a square shoulder or doing a facing cut.

When set up correctly the jig will generate a rake angle of approximately 15 degrees which is fine for most materials likely to be encountered in the home workshop. At this setting it will sharpen both a left or right hand tool bit with the same grinding jig which is obviously more convenient.

The rake angle can be changed if desired by simply adjusting the height of the bench grinder tool rest, higher gives you more rake, lower gives less rake. The downside of changing the rake angle is that the tool bit will no longer be symmetrical so an opposite hand sharpening jig would be required to achieve the different rake angles for a left hand tool holder.

Other than adding a chip breaker groove for stringy materials such as stainless steel I have never needed to change the rake angle for any material.

In my experience the 15 degrees has worked perfectly well over the years on a range of plastics, aluminium, hot and cold rolled steels, titanium, cast iron, copper, light cuts in brass and bronze and even timber. For heavy cuts in brass and bronze I hone a small flat on the top of the tool bit to avoid dig-ins.

Different tool geometry for different materials was developed many years ago for industry so that they could remove the largest possible amount of material in the shortest possible amount of time for the longest possible tool life but still achieve an acceptable surface quality. The four factors were balanced to achieve the best result in terms of making money, that’s all they were developed for, if you increase one you decrease another and vice versa.

This thinking isn’t as relevant in a home workshop as fractions of a second in reduced machining time really don’t matter to us.

So long as a tool bit has some clearance angles it will cut, changing the rake angle will help or hinder how fast the tool bit can cut through the material but it’s the keenness of the cutting edge combined with the speeds and feeds of the lathe that affects the surface finish.

Small lathes sometimes struggle with carbide tips as they work best when the point radius of the tool bit is cutting for it’s entire depth, if you have a large radius on the tool bit the lathe is not going to be strong enough to push the tool but reducing the depth of cut will often give an inferior finish as the tool edge will tend to skate across the surface.

The tool geometry of the Diamond Tool Holders allows relatively heavy cuts in small lathes but as HSS can take a finer cut than most indexable carbide you can also reduce the depth of cut to relieve stress on the lathe whilst still achieving a good surface finish.

I use Diamond Tool Holders for most tasks on all my lathes and they range from a benchtop Sherline using one of the small discontinued tool holders with a 1/8” tool bit to a Jessey Major with a 4” bore which uses a 1” tool with a 5/16” tool bit.

Everyone has their own views of course and the above is just my personal thoughts, and obviously I have a bit of a bias towards my own products

If you haven’t seen it before the “Diamond Tool Holder - features and tips” video I put up on YouTube shows far more about the tool holder than any words I could put into an email.

I hope this information is helpful and you’re welcome to post this on the forum if you think it will be of interest to people.

Cheers

Gary
 
ddickey said:
I emailed Gary who is the owner of Eccentric Engineering asking him if he could address some of the questions, following is his response.

Thanks for your email, I’ll try and respond to the comments below as best I can.

Cost. If the tool is purchased directly through the website shop in Australia the cost of the tool holder mentioned below would only be US$79.50 (AU$110), plus US$16.00 for airmail shipping to anywhere in the USA. There may be some import duty upon arrival but I’m not sure what that would be, if any.

Over the years I’ve had a great many customers coming up to me at shows to say how happy they are with the tool they bought 20+ years ago and that it still works just as well as the day they bought it. In that regard I think $80 is pretty good value.

The side and front clearance angles are set at 10 degrees which is a little more than usual (around 8 degrees) so that there is enough clearance between the clamp and the workpiece.

If the clearance angles are lessened the tool bit would have to sit higher up in the holder to compensate for it, thus reducing rigidity. Otherwise the clamp would foul the workpiece when cutting a square shoulder or doing a facing cut.

When set up correctly the jig will generate a rake angle of approximately 15 degrees which is fine for most materials likely to be encountered in the home workshop. At this setting it will sharpen both a left or right hand tool bit with the same grinding jig which is obviously more convenient.

The rake angle can be changed if desired by simply adjusting the height of the bench grinder tool rest, higher gives you more rake, lower gives less rake. The downside of changing the rake angle is that the tool bit will no longer be symmetrical so an opposite hand sharpening jig would be required to achieve the different rake angles for a left hand tool holder.

Other than adding a chip breaker groove for stringy materials such as stainless steel I have never needed to change the rake angle for any material.

In my experience the 15 degrees has worked perfectly well over the years on a range of plastics, aluminium, hot and cold rolled steels, titanium, cast iron, copper, light cuts in brass and bronze and even timber. For heavy cuts in brass and bronze I hone a small flat on the top of the tool bit to avoid dig-ins.

Different tool geometry for different materials was developed many years ago for industry so that they could remove the largest possible amount of material in the shortest possible amount of time for the longest possible tool life but still achieve an acceptable surface quality. The four factors were balanced to achieve the best result in terms of making money, that’s all they were developed for, if you increase one you decrease another and vice versa.

This thinking isn’t as relevant in a home workshop as fractions of a second in reduced machining time really don’t matter to us.

So long as a tool bit has some clearance angles it will cut, changing the rake angle will help or hinder how fast the tool bit can cut through the material but it’s the keenness of the cutting edge combined with the speeds and feeds of the lathe that affects the surface finish.

Small lathes sometimes struggle with carbide tips as they work best when the point radius of the tool bit is cutting for it’s entire depth, if you have a large radius on the tool bit the lathe is not going to be strong enough to push the tool but reducing the depth of cut will often give an inferior finish as the tool edge will tend to skate across the surface.

The tool geometry of the Diamond Tool Holders allows relatively heavy cuts in small lathes but as HSS can take a finer cut than most indexable carbide you can also reduce the depth of cut to relieve stress on the lathe whilst still achieving a good surface finish.

I use Diamond Tool Holders for most tasks on all my lathes and they range from a benchtop Sherline using one of the small discontinued tool holders with a 1/8” tool bit to a Jessey Major with a 4” bore which uses a 1” tool with a 5/16” tool bit.

Everyone has their own views of course and the above is just my personal thoughts, and obviously I have a bit of a bias towards my own products

If you haven’t seen it before the “Diamond Tool Holder - features and tips” video I put up on YouTube shows far more about the tool holder than any words I could put into an email.

I hope this information is helpful and you’re welcome to post this on the forum if you think it will be of interest to people.

Cheers

Gary
Click to expand...
Thank you for that Dickey that is very good information and gives a good positive outlook on the tools ,I know they have been around for a long time as my father mentioned he had seen them at some field day many years ago ,at 80 Us plus shipping I guess over a long period of time it is not a huge cost .I guess partly the reason also it may seem a little expensive is you can buy but the cheaper shares and Chinese tool holders quite cheap these days but then you are buying tips for ever more ,guess if you broke it down over a few years it would pay for itself .
 
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