Logan 820 Electrical Issue

CDBEAM

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Hello All,

Well, I got around to changing the 110V cord on my Logan 820. I did this primarily because the cord had NO ground pin on the plug.

I opened up the Motor access plate, and found that the original cord had only two (2) wires, White and Black. My new cord has a Ground wire ( Green). I checked and found no place to secure the ( Green) Ground wire inside the pocket, so I put a spade connector on my Green cord wire and connected to the motor access plate bolt.

I attached the White to White (Load) and Black to Black (Hot). Then, plugged the lathe back in, and threw the F/R Drum Switch. Well, to my surprise, I blew the breaker and tripped the GFI which supplies all the outlets in my shop. Hmmmm?

Next I unplugged the machine and reset the breaker. I disconnected the spade connector, plugged the Lathe back in, and the Lathe ran fine, as it did before, with NO ground wire connected. I am sure this machine, as any machine needs a ground connector for safe operations

I must note that something is wired incorrectly in the Drum Switch, for Forward = Reverse, and Reverse = Forward. That was going to be fixed next.

My Industrial Electrician neighbor will be down tomorrow nite. He thinks there may be an issue with the Drum Switch wiring. We will investigate. See attached pics of the Drum Switch and Motor I. D. Plate.

Thoughts ?? I sure hope I do NOT need a new motor !

Thanx, CDBEAM
 

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CDBEAM

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Better Motor Name Plate ID pic; Westinghouse/Type FJ/ 1PHS AC. Will start searching for wire schematic for this motor and switch. I believe this is the original Motor and Drum Switch. CDBEAM

Note: Just remembered there is a wire schematic in my manual. Will supply that to my Electrician.
 

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MontanaLon

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Is it on a GFCI protected breaker? I know that code requires them in every bathroom and in a lot of cases on new builds and remodels they just use GFCI breakers for everything because someone once wrote that GFCI would prevent fire and electrocution hazards which represent 2% of home fires and the .00001 chance you will be electrocuted in your lifetime by household current.

Anyway, GFCI breakers sometimes pop when the ground is used on older motors which did not have them originally.
 

Bi11Hudson

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Swapping the black and white conductors at the motor will verify whether you have a ground on the machine. I don't like GFCI's on anything that has a large motor. They leak. New or with age, they WILL leak enough eventually. A GFCI "looks" for any difference between Line and Neutral load. If it "sees" any, it trips. Best bet is disabling/removing the breaker. If any likely moisture such as a sink,etc, is nearby, perhaps running a non-GFC circuit for the machine will help.

I would defer to the electrician on site on this. If you weren't zapped when you touch the machine, it probably doesn't leak much. I have seen old appliances such as refrigerators that gave a tingle when touched. Rolling the plug would relieve the problem.

.
 
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CDBEAM

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Well, Thanx for the reply, ALL the receptacles in my garage/shop are on a single GFI . I could replace the GFI with a standard unit. BUT, the breaker in the Main Distribution panel ALSO tripped, along with the GFI. Something is not right. I have not felt any leakage....BUT...when I tried to ground the unit with the motor running., I noted a healthy spark jumped from spade connector to a ground point, then GFI and Breaker tripped (instantly). I would NOT want to be part of this circuit ! My Electrician is stopping over tonight. I will report back. CDBEAM
 

markba633csi

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Your motor case is hot, don't use it until you find the cause- it's a shock hazard
Use a meter to test for leakage
mark
 

CDBEAM

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THANX !! I will not use !! When I attached the new cord ( With Green, White and Black leads) I assumed that motor leads inside the pocket were connected correctly. The motor leads were NOT color coded. I just hooked up the new cord the way the old cord was connected. Perhaps the wires were reversed ? Likely NOT that simple ???? I am very challenged regarding electrical issues. My Electrician will be involved. Meanwhile, worse case scenario, I have located a 3/4 1725 RPM Baldor replacement motor, local, at a good price. I can machine a base plate adapter if need be. The adventure continues.
CDBEAM
 

CDBEAM

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No Luck....Before my Electrician neighbor arrived, I decided to try the simple procedure, and exchanged the White and Black leads. Well, that just made the GFI trip just when I plugged the Lathe in. SO, no simple solution. If the motor case is " Hot ", I assume that means there is some leakage between the windings and ground. Sounds like a new Motor to me. Crap ! CDBEAM
 

Latinrascalrg1

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No Luck....Before my Electrician neighbor arrived, I decided to try the simple procedure, and exchanged the White and Black leads. Well, that just made the GFI trip just when I plugged the Lathe in. SO, no simple solution. If the motor case is " Hot ", I assume that means there is some leakage between the windings and ground. Sounds like a new Motor to me. Crap ! CDBEAM
Don't jump to conclusions and give up just yet. If this lathe has been sitting around for awhile there's no telling what crawled into that motor or maybe some other crap got into that motor somehow causing just enough leakage to pop the breaker. Wires get old and crack and metal fatigues and breaks so dont give up hope on it being an easy fix just yet....at least not till you see whats in there!
 

markba633csi

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First thing would be to disconnect the motor and use an ohm meter to check the resistance of each wire to the case. It might be a bad winding but it could be something simpler like a stray strand of wire touching somewhere inside that you could correct. Could also be a bad capacitor that leaks to the case. Do the same test with the drum switch, sometimes the wires touch the inside of the cover and cause a short. The readings should be at least 500k ohms or higher (500,000 ohms)
Be safe, do all testing with power off and plug pulled
Mark
 
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CDBEAM

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THANX Mark !!! Your guidance is very appreciated !! As with most problems, one must be persistent and open to learning new things. A person must also "enjoy the ride " and be disciplined in their work. Most importantly, a support group that shares their hard earned knowledge. Thanks again. CDBEAM
 

CDBEAM

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NOT throwing in the towel yet !...just preparing for worst case.

Will THIS motor work ??


Found a great deal on Marketplace !! Where is the capacitor ?? What is Split Phase !

Yikes...So much to learn !! Thanx CDBEAM
 

markba633csi

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A split-phase motor differs from a capacitor start motor; it lacks a starting capacitor and has a bit less starting torque which is fine for fans and blowers. Capacitor start motors are more common on machine tools. Also you'll notice that motor has openings which metal chips can enter, not so good for a lathe
Mark
 

Nogoingback

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You have several options. One possibility is to have your existing motor repaired or rewound, so if there's a motor repair place
locally, you might have a talk with them first. Your second option is buying a new or used 110V cap start motor of course. I've bought a couple of
NOS motors off eBay at about half of retail price and been happy with them. Another (more expensive) option is a 3 phase motor
with a VFD.

If you buy another motor you'll need to make sure you get the correct frame. My Logan 200 uses a NEMA 56 frame motor, and since
your 820 is similar that's probably what your's uses as well. I would check anyway. Also, be aware that motors with the capacitors
on top may have clearance issues with the drive box. The original motor for my lathe had the capacitor on the side, but new motors
rarely do. 3 phase motors don't have capacitors on them, so they don't have this problem.
 

CDBEAM

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Well, It is official, Motor is shot, stick a fork in it-It is done. Winding to ground, need a replacement motor.

Only half way decent price on Ebay-


Comments PLEASE....only have 10 hr to offer !! THANX !!

Note: Crap, this one is "Footless", or can one purchase the mounting base ? Are there holes in the case for the bracket to be attached

Maybe -

"
I feel like I am "Going down the Rabbit Hole "

CDBEAM
 
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wa5cab

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The ad doesn't say but if the Baldor has no mounting base on the side of it, it is probably a 56C frame, which has holes drilled and tapped in the end that the shaft sticks out of for the purpose of bolting up to something like a pump or gear head. It would not quite be technically correct to say that it will not work on your machine. But you would have to find a right angle mounting bracket, which isn't too common because it is much cheaper to buy a side-mounted motor in the first place.

Monroe should be large enough to have a W. W. Grainger store. A motor from them will probably cost more than one bought off of eBay but you won't have to pay shipping. I would take the old motor with me as you probably aren't familiar enough to be sure of getting the right one. Plop the mold motor up on the counter and tell the person waiting on you that you need a replacement. And that it is going on a lathe so he/she won't offer you one with an automatic reset thermal breaker (which would be dangerous in your application).
 

CDBEAM

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Well, the saga continues. No Grainger in Monroe, have to go down to Toledo. But,
Found this on Ebay, yea, Off-shore, but likely fine for my needs.


Looks good, will fit, No automatic thermal reset breaker, right frame @ 56c - HP @ 3/4/ - Speed @ 1800 rpm


I would really like to keep the original motor, but, that is not economical. Rebuild cost way high, I checked. No way.

Unless I have overlooked something, this is the way I will go
Comments ? Advise ?

Thanx,
CDBEAM
 
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markba633csi

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Take a look at Marathon motors, also WEG made in Brazil- they are both good
I would also check Craigslist for used motors if you are on a tight budget
M
 

Nogoingback

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Looks good, but be sure that the capacitor on top doesn't interfere with the drive box above. Is a drawing available for
that motor?
 

wa5cab

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If the start capacitor being on top isn't a problem, it should work. You just won't use the C-frame mounting holes.
 

CDBEAM

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Thanx Gentlemen,

This being a " Hobby" Lathe, I am relatively sure this unit will do fine. I have studied the drawing ( Which is on the Ebay listing ) and the specs.
This motor will fit were the old motor is mounted.

Class F Winding insulation to HD BB on both ends. There are more expensive motors, but then, so, if this one lasts 25 years vs the top of the line going 50 years, well really, I do not care. My Grandson may need to change out the motor, good for him, builds character !

My Electrician neighbor and I will replace all the Drum Switch wiring with new, and we should be good to go !

This whole project revolves around a Hobby Machine. If I were in a Production shop, well then a $ 50K Hass CL1 would be the order of the day.

Thanx for your patience and help.
CDBEAM
 
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