Looking for an answer maybe.

How do these pre charged air cylinders work? Do you have to send them away to be pumped up? How many shots do you get from one? I looked at everything on the Arizona site with interest. Just about everything I have is an antique. All this new stuff has come on the scene. I haven't been paying attention to it.

I see the Nitro Venom shoots 1250 FPS with the light weight pellets? They will slow down faster,too,though,I would think. And blow in the wind more,won't they? What are these PBA pellets made from?
 
Hello George, I'll try fill in the blanks on the PCP or pre-charged pneumatic air rifles.

The PCP was designed to eliminate the recoil of the springer, providing a shorter lock time and little to no recoil - meaning higher precision. They require an on-board air storage tank and for the most part, require charging from an external pump or a scuba tank. FX airguns of Sweden has created one with an onboard pump which solves the problem:

http://www.gunmart.net/gun_review/fx_independence_air_rifle/

Most PCP rifles nowadays have an onboard regulator which means that as the pressure of the onboard air drops, the velocities remain consistent. Most rifles will maintain a better than 20 fps spread from shot to shot until refilling is required.

These rifles are more like a powder burner than a springer in that they achieve higher power, can use magazines and are therefore useful in pest control. Here is my Theoben MFR, a PCP next to my Weihrauch, a springer:

330663747.jpg

I have used my PCP to take care of pests in the past and it's accuracy is unrivalled. The ability to take follow up shots means that the 12 shot magazine helps it become a practical hunting rig. They are loud though, so a silencer is often necessary and silencing cold gas is trickier than silencing hot gas as it is already dense. In countries where silencers are not allowed, the use of a PCP is limited as they are as loud as a rimfire when unsilenced.

Paul.

330663747.jpg
 
Twist Rate,

Generally the longer a projectile is in a given caliber the faster the twist rate needs to be to stabilize it in flight. For example a 45 caliber patched round ball does very well with about a 1 in 48 twist where a 45/70 typically uses 1 in 20. There are multiple factors at work a short sided projectile has less surface to grip the lands and if over powered it can strip the bore on the bright side the the short sided projectile need less spin to stabilize. There are calculators and they will get you in the ball park the specific application ie muzzle loader, pellet rifle, have their own laws as to what works best within the basic formula. Ideally you want to use only as much twist as you need.

When you really get it wrong you get key holing (bullet tumbles in flight). Get it a little wrong and you may just get enough yaw to degrade accuracy in a way that will be hard to diagnose.

AR shooters will know they need a fast twist for heavier (longer) bullets they and this has driven a strong after market for barrels.

Bob

http://kwk.us/twist.html

http://www.bergerbullets.com/litz/TwistRuleAlt.php
 
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Several years ago my local machine dealer came up with a 3000 PSI. air compressor for sale. I guess for scuba tanks. I could have had it for a few hundred,but just did not have the space for it. I'm not that much of a constant shooter anyway,but it would have been nice to have.

So,are you saying we need to have a charged scuba tank handy for re charging our guns? Using a pump seems like it would be a lot of work to get those pressures. I think I'll stick to spring air.
 
I have 2 scuba tanks with fill adaptors. The hand pumps are a couple of minutes and all reports indicate that for a casual shooter with a rifle that has a tank of 100cc - 180cc it will take 2 - 3 minutes with the hand pump. I have read reviews by people with arthritis comment that it is not particularly taxing. The pump to get seems to be the FX 4 stage pump.

That said, nothing beats the reliability of a springer. I would part with my PCP before my springer.

Paul.
 
I agree. the springer was reported to be he most accurate and consistent type of air gun in the reprinted 1950's "Encyclopedia of Air Guns"(or some re arrangement of those words. Things may have changed. I sort of prefer to "Pay as I go" and pump the barrel once per shot.

True,though,the most expensive target air guns are CO2 types. I understand you waste the first several shots,then there is a consistent 900 PSI yield for a good number of subsequent shots. I shot those type guns many years ago(not the Olympic quality ones!) But,none will deliver the power of a good spring air. Plus,if you want a quieter gun,CO2 and pump ups are noisier. not that I mind a nice POP!! It is now LEGAL in Va. to shoot air guns in your yard with a good backstop. So,noise doesn't matter.

Even many,many years ago,a Greener break barrel delivered quite respectable velocity that exceeded pump up types. I think they did 900 FPS,but it has been a long while since I read the book. I have the 1927 Webley service spring air,and 2 BSA patent date 1907 rifles. One in .117 and a larger version in .22 caliber. These will all deliver more power than a pump up or a CO2 gun. And,man,are they built. No sheet metal at all. Even there cocking levers of the BSA's are milled from solid steel. The Webley receivers were milled from a solid billet of steel,air cylinder and all,according to my old book. Their pistons have automotive type piston rings,which makes their small cylinders more efficient. They always cost more,but they were made with actual fire arms quality. A couple of scientists hunting rare bird specimens(to stuff) in the Amazon in the 20's said that Webleys were the only air guns they could always trust in that climate.

Sam,your mention of smooth bores with the last portion being rifled is not a new concept. That was used in the early 20th. C.(or possibly late 19th. C.) in some African large bore rifles. It was patented and called "Paradox" rifling. I am not certain what the benefit was. Possibly higher velocity due to less friction from a fully rifled barrel. The reason they used very large caliber rifles was they didn't have the super high velocities back then. Once,at a gun show,I handled a FLINTLOCK bi game rifle. It must have been 20 MM!! No kidding!! The barrel was much oversized compared to a normal gun. For some reason,the rifle was not real long. Since black powder burns more slowly than smokeless in a gun barrel(hard to believe),barrels were made longer to burn more of it.
 
Several years ago my local machine dealer came up with a 3000 PSI. air compressor for sale. I guess for scuba tanks. I could have had it for a few hundred,but just did not have the space for it. I'm not that much of a constant shooter anyway,but it would have been nice to have.

So,are you saying we need to have a charged scuba tank handy for re charging our guns? Using a pump seems like it would be a lot of work to get those pressures. I think I'll stick to spring air.

Another option would be a ShoeBox compressor http://www.shoeboxcompressor.com/.
They are a bit pricey though, 3 models with 2 @ $649 and 1 @ $1149. You need a regular air compressor to feed it at 100 psi, if I remember correctly (can't remember the required scfm).
 
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