Looking for boring head and boring bars for PM-25MV mill

devils4ever

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Hi all,

I'm looking for recommendations on a boring head with a set of boring bars for use with my PM-25MV mill.

I'm thinking a Shars 2" model such as: 202-8044?

As for boring bars, I've read that carbide can be an issue with smaller mills which can't provide the speed and rigidity needed compared to HSS boring bars. True?
 
I have a 2" import head on my G0704 (same size mill). Fits perfectly. Maybe not the fit and finish of an $800 boring head but it works accurately.

Carbide is fine if you prefer inserts to grinding your own tools. You can run it slow, you just won't be getting the full potential of the tool - that's fine. 90% of my tooling is indexable carbide since I prefer not to grind in my basement. Look for inserts with sharp corners (less cutting forces) and polished and ground edges for aluminum (e.g. CCGX32.50). I buy almost all of my inserts from Shars and I am happy with them.

HSS is great and usually cheaper, but requires you to grind your own tools.

I stay away from the brazed carbide tools. Never cut well without substantial grinding effort. Not worth the effort IMO.
 
On the PM-30MV I use a 2"or 2-1/2" boring head that takes 1/2" bars. Have to look to see the brand. The cheap carbide brazed bits work OK for me out of the box. If I start to have a problem, I can regrind or make a HSS bit, but haven't had to.

One thing to think about. Mine is an integral unit. R8 shaft and head is all one piece. I looked special for this item. It allows me to put the bit in backwards and run in reverse. That allows me to create a round protrusion on the item. The most common (and cheaper) boring heads are two pieces that screw to gether. I will probaly buy a shaft and some different heads in the future but this one has done all that I wanted so far. Just something to look into. Lots of You Tubes on the subject including reversing the bit. Charles
 
Good point Chewy! I opted a long time ago to go to the Tormach TTS system and used a 3/4" straight shank on my boring head. The threads were assembled with red Loctite and I've never had them come apart even when running in reverse.

The integral straight shank is just so longggggg :)

I would probably have better luck with the brazed tools if I spent more than $5-10 on the set :rolleyes:
 
I hadn't thought about the red loctite. Good idea! My bars came from Wholesale Tool and at the time were about $13-14. Nothing like top of the line quality. :)

Most all of my tooling has come from Shars. No problem with their quality. I do buy used name brand on an auction site. Most of my supplies are coming from KBC because of their shipping policy.
 
Okay, so maybe I should buy the Shars 202-8024A set which comes with a 4-piece indexable Carbide boring bar set. This set should handle steel okay?

Since I do a lot of Aluminum, I'll buy a few CCGX32.50 LH YD101 inserts? Shars number: 424-1060? I'm hoping the "LH" doesn't mean left hand, does it?
 
It appears that the LH is some form of chip breaker. I'm thinking that the boring head came from Enco just before they closed and cost right at $100. Have to look later.
 
That boring head looks pretty good. Truth be told I rarely ever need to swap the boring bar out of the head (I have a TCMT indexable bar, 7/16" diameter on a 1/2" shank). I don't know if you'd get a great value from having 4 bars of the same size and different lengths. I find I don't do much deep boring in my mill, and the machine itself doesn't have the travel to require a 6" bar. I find that different diameter bars are more valuable. How about considering the following:
  • 202-8028A or 202-8044 (never seen their high precision, don't know if it is worth the extra cost)
  • 404-7161 (Boring bar, ~7/16" diameter, 1/2" shank, TC--21 insert)
  • 424-1659 (Spare insert for Aluminum, 3 corners)
  • 424-1627 (Spare insert for Steel Finishing, 3 corners)
This gets you the boring head and an indexable boring bar. If you like the boring bar, then get another (either smaller or larger) to fit your work. The different sizes will probably get more use than the ones that come in that kit. Plus doing it this way is cheaper at $105.35. ;)

The CCGX insert I stated above is the wrong insert for the set you picked out. You'd want a TCMT21 or TCGX21, which I included in the part numbers above.

Just my thoughts,

Mike
 
I have the Shars 202-8024A set for my PM30 mill. Only done two 1" dia. holes in 1/2" aluminum and done fine. Kepp in mind that the division marks are .001 on the radius, or .002 for diameter on the 2" head. I believe the 3" head it's .0005 on the radius and .001 for the diameter.
 
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The head most of these imported heads were cloned from is the Criterion DBL-202 boring head. This is a simple 2" boring head with three tool positions that allowed it to bore a hole from 0.050" to 6.667" ID. This head is found in almost every pro shop and a large proportion of hobby shops for a simple reason - it works, and it can work for decades if cared for. It has a direct reading leadscrew; what you dial in is what comes off the diameter, in 0.001" increments. The DBL-202 comes in two forms, the A-model that takes 3/8" shanked bars on the bottom and 1/2" bars in the horizontal tool holder and the more common B-model that takes 1/2" bars.

I have both A and B models and I much prefer to use the A-model because it uses the smaller, lighter bars. You have to remember that you are dealing with centripetal forces and mass makes a difference.

Cost for a brand new DBL-202B head ran about $300 so a used head in good condition should run about half that or less. The A-model is less common so commands a higher price. Here is one that looks to be in decent shape, lacking only two of the three bar locking screws. The important thing to look for in a used head is that the dovetail gib is intact. It is connected to the body by a very thin remnant and can crack off if abused so look sharp when buying a used head. There should be three gib screws that touch the gib and all should be there; underneath each set screw is a ball bearing so look to see if the set screws are at the same level; if one or more is deeper then that means the ball is missing and must be replaced - I would pass on such a head.

I would take a good used Criterion head before buying a new import head but that's just me. I also have a Interstate clone of this head and its okay but you can tell the quality is lacking when compared to the real thing.

Insofar as boring bars go, you are going to find that inserted carbide bars will work for smaller diameters but the finish is going to be lacking in larger diameters. Carbide needs speed to work well and this especially applies to boring bars. Given that centripetal forces increase as speed goes up, going faster causes more vibration so that limits what a small mill can handle in terms of diameters. You will be far better off using HSS boring bars.

The best boring bars I have used are the cobalt-HSS bars from Borite. They cut well at mortal speeds, are sharpened easily, last for decades (my 3/8" set is over 25 years old and still looks and works like new) and finish far better than either brazed or inserted carbide at the speeds I use.

I think you can do well with an imported head but if it was me, I would prefer a used/new Criterion head. I would go for cobalt bars instead of carbide. LMS sells a cobalt set that looks good.
 
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