[4]

Mauser barrels

[3]
[10] Like what you see?
Click here to donate to this forum and upgrade your account!

mickri

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 31, 2016
Messages
446
Likes
245
#1
One of my projects down the road is to rebarrel a small ring 1895 mauser to 257 Roberts. I have recently come across a large ring mauser barrel in 257 Roberts for sale. My question is could I turn down the shank to .980 and thread it to fit my 1895 action. This would save me a lot of work. Large and small ring mauser actions have the same 12 tpi. Only difference is the shank size. 1.1" for large ring and .980" for a small ring.
 

Downwindtracker2

Active User
Registered
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
363
Likes
150
#2
Your chamber may not be the correct depth for your action. Pre-64 M-70s were great., but European military actions were not made to the high standards of American rifles. There was a lot of hand fitting. You may have to touch up the chamber or the barrel shoulder.

Grizzly sells gages and reamers, BTW
 

mickri

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 31, 2016
Messages
446
Likes
245
#3
The barrel comes with a set of go/no go gauges and reloading dies. I realize that it would require fitting to my action including getting the headspace correct. But that is a lot less work than starting with a raw barrel blank. I am just exploring this as a possible option. The asking price is on the high side for a take off barrel. I doubt that it will sell quickly. But who knows. If I get serious about it I will ask about round count and who made the barrel. How old it is, etc.
Brownells has reamers also and I recently ran across a gunsmith who is retiring and selling off his chamber reamers at a good price.

No rush on this.
 

john.k

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 4, 2018
Messages
37
Likes
15
#4
While the conversion is easily done,ask yourself ...is a 95 strong enough for a calibre like 257R?..........Since you dont mention a maker or year,I will assume the action is Spanish........with either Spanish or a pre 1900 ,the action is likely to be well worn,possibly worn thru the hardening on the lugs.....only about .004" thick on the early actions.....lug setback should be checked for...........if you need to face off the lugs and then have the lot rehardened,a 98 might be a cheaper option.
 

mickri

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 31, 2016
Messages
446
Likes
245
#5
John, I don't want to be critical because I really appreciate everybody's knowledge that is so freely shared on this site. Instead of making an assumption why didn't you ask for more info? The action is a chilean 1895 made by Lowe Berlin which was originally chambered for 7x57 military ammo. I go by the Saami specs which lists a 257 Roberts at the same maximum pressure as a 7x57. I have several of these actions. One will definitely be a 257 Roberts. I haven't decided on the others. But whatever I choose will be within the specs for a 7x57.

Thanks for the heads up about the lug setback. I will check that out. The actions appear to be in good condition, operate smoothly and are not sloppy at all.
 

john.k

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 4, 2018
Messages
37
Likes
15
#6
Ok,I can see you are set on using one of these.......bear in mind that a Ludwig Loewe action is pre 1896......when the name was changed to DWM....The early actions are quite soft,and have thin hardening.........Dont get me wrong,Im not criticing your choice,I do like the early Mauser actions .1893 and 1895 .without the thumb cutout.......very neat and lightweight actions with all machined parts.
 

dulltool17

Active User
Registered
Joined
May 9, 2014
Messages
319
Likes
211
#7
Other than the pressure considerations, and the cautions about lug set-back, it can be easily done. Somewhere here is a whole post on my conversion of a 1909 Peruvian (large ring/small thread) I turned and re-threaded the tang of a LR Lothar-Walther Barrel to Small ring 0.980 x 12TPI. Get the head spacing correct and you're done.
 

killswitch505

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Messages
291
Likes
286
#9
I’m definitely not a Mauser expert but I’m sure the the 95 will handle the pressure of a 257R I wouldn’t be afraid to run it. So turning the the tenon down from 1.1 to .980 shouldn’t be a problem but the difference in tenon lengths and trying to hit the head spacing might be a challenge As far as re-reaming with a different reamer/set up approach might be an issue. I had a similar deal rechamberimg a 6.5x47 for a buddy (actually the guy that got me into “gunsmithing”)using my equipment and reamer (he sold his house stored his lathe and mill) he just wanted to clean up the throat and try to get a squeeze another thousand more rounds of life out of his barrel. We thought maybe we could cut .150-.200 off the tenon and clean up just the throat the only thing we could figure is I use a .0005 dial when I set up he used/uses a .001 for his set up (Gordy method). The reamer chattered like crazy in the camber (even using the wax paper trick). I ended up having to take nearly .600 off the tenon to get the chamber cleaned up as the 6.5x47 case doesn’t have a huge taper to it.
 

mickri

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 31, 2016
Messages
446
Likes
245
#10
The barrel I referenced in my original post didn't sell on gunbroker and now it is listed on Ebay. Still at a price of more than double what I would pay for it. It was just a thought. Using a take off barrel is kind of like doing a major remodel on a house. It is often less hassle and more cost effective to just build a new home. My original plan is to buy a Green Mountain barrel. And I will most likely still do that. That way I will know what I have. This will be a hunting rifle. Not a bench rest rifle or even a long range rifle. Minute of deer at up to 250, maybe 300 yards, is all I am looking for.

I have read on other forums about people that use a take off barrel use a barrel nut like on a savage to set the head space. I might try that.

This project is way off in the future. Lots of other stuff to do before I get to this.
 

killswitch505

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Messages
291
Likes
286
#11
I have buddies that run the green mountain barrels with a lot of success. I’d definitely give one a try on “budget” build. Why would you want to run a barrel nut if you didn’t have to? I noticed you said it would save you a lot of time. chambering a rifle is a fairly easy process compared to a lot of stuff I see guys doing here. Will you be chambering through the head stock or using a steady rest? I’ve never chambered using a steady rest or threaded on centers. I have seen most my buddies do it this way and it seems pretty easy.
 

mickri

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 31, 2016
Messages
446
Likes
245
#12
After reading the pros and cons of chambering through the headstock verses between centers I decided that chambering between centers made the most sense to me. Gunsmith Rod Hendricks who goes by speerchucker on most forums provided a good tutorial on chambering between centers using a steady rest. https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...een-centres-230343/?highlight=between+centers.

No need to rekindle that debate here. My craftsman 12x36 lathe only has a 3/4" spindle bore and no way that I can see to attach a spider to the outboard end of the spindle. As such threading between centers and using a steady rest to chamber is my only option.

I referenced using a barrel nut only when using a take off barrel that has already been chambered and where you can turn down the existing shank for the new threads. If you have to shorten the shank to cut the new threads then using a barrel nut just adds more work.

I hope to do my first barrel sometime next year. My first project will be on a carcano action. Why am I using this ill thought of action? Because I didn't pay squat for it and this will be a learning experience. If I totally make a "mell of a hess" of it (my high school shop teacher's description of most of my projects), no big deal. It will be a 35 remington. Why 35 remington? Because a 35 remington is within the same pressure limits of the original chambering and the case head is the same size as the original. No need to modify the bolt. The thread I posted a link to above on destructive testing of small ring mauser actions includes destructive testing of carcano actions. Turns out the carcano is one tough action with excellent gas retention. Loads that blew a small ring mauser apart did not destroy the carcano. I have a new found respect for the carcano. I might even use it for other builds.
 

killswitch505

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Messages
291
Likes
286
#13
Sounds like you got her all fingered out my friend look forward to seeing your progress
 

mickri

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 31, 2016
Messages
446
Likes
245
#14
I wouldn't say that I have it all figured out. I have a plan and am slowly accumulating the stuff that I think I need to make it happen. Still have a long ways to go.
 

killswitch505

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Messages
291
Likes
286
#15
I wouldn't say that I have it all figured out. I have a plan and am slowly accumulating the stuff that I think I need to make it happen. Still have a long ways to go.
There’s not much to chambering or threading a tenon. you have the action(s) picked out, you know what barrel you wanna use, the caliber you wanna run and you have the chambering method you wanna use picked out (only one available to you). I’m going with you got her figured out my friend.
 

mickri

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 31, 2016
Messages
446
Likes
245
#16
You are right that I have my plan figured out. I am at the stage in learning how to machine like a person just starting to learn to drive a car. They have read about how to drive and figured out which is the best car for them. They have a plan. But they have only driven around the block twice on clear, dry, sunny days. They have a lot to learn before they will really know how to drive. That's where I am at with learning how to run a lathe and mill. I have been doing little projects. Some come out good. Some ok. And some are just down right ugly. I have a lot to learn. At some point in the future when I think that I have gained enough knowledge I will do my first barrel. For my first trial run I plan to get a piece of 1 1/4 x 12" or so 4140 round bar. I will then go through each step of the process of fitting this to one of my receivers. Depending on how I do will determine whether I do another practice run or move on to a real barrel. Then I will strap the barreled receiver to my shooting bench and fire off a couple of rounds using a string to pull the trigger while I hide behind the granite boulders that are behind my shooting bench. I have a 50 yard range on my property.

So yes I have a plan. Just need to gain the knowledge and practical hands on experience to execute the plan.
 

killswitch505

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Messages
291
Likes
286
#17
If you can thread it will be a piece of cake. I practiced on some aluminum I had laying around and went straight to a 400 buck barrel no issues. I’m on a few gunsmithing forums and those guys say practice on pvc pipe wish I would have seen that before wasting aluminum. You might visit with a local gunsmith and see if he has some old barrels laying around to practice on (that wasn’t really an option for me). I find the most important part is the crown I have a super small super sharp carbide boring bar that I use the only time I use it is on crowning and opening up bolt faces. I’m sure you have or will do your research on that. My other piece of advice is to take as deep of a cut as you can while threading a bunch of light cuts seem to leave me with really ugly looking threads. The last barrel I did (last week) was done in 6 passes 3 cuts and three spring passes. I went from taking an hour to set up, an hour to thread and an hour to chamber to maybe an hour to an hour and a half to do all 3 steps. But I’ve done some stuff to to really increase my speed. I made a micro switch threading stop for my lathe and also installed a DRO. Turning on centers should make threading simple I’d be willing to bet you should be able to turn your tenon and thread in 20 minutes or so.
 

mickri

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 31, 2016
Messages
446
Likes
245
#18
Thanks for the suggestion about taking deeper cuts when threading. I currently take light cuts and my threads look ugly. They seem to work ok. I started threading by practicing on PVC pipe. I went through several feet of pvc. I've got threading down now. Still make mistakes now and then. My current project making an ER32 chuck requires metric threads. Have not done any metric threads yet. I should get some pvc chucked up to practice on. There are a couple of threads on here about metric threading through a qcgb on a craftsman lathe. I have my lathe setup so I can cut the common metric threads by just moving one gear to the inner position. Gear in outer position I cut imperial threads. Gear in inner position I cut metric threads.

I know there must be some gunsmiths in my area. I just don't know any. I'll check around.
 

john.k

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 4, 2018
Messages
37
Likes
15
#19
I used to do this professionally,fitting barrels to surplus 98 actions in the good old days when surplus was cheap.....Anyhoo,we would cut the tenon in as few passes as possible,never more than six,leaving the the thread somewhat rough and oversize.........then the thread was chased with a hand held chaser to an exact fit...........this left a very fine shiny surface on the thread,and there was zero possibility of an undersize .....Not saying this was the right way,just the way we did it.................trying to take fine cuts with a little lathe end up with a big cut that tears the metal........
 

john.k

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 4, 2018
Messages
37
Likes
15
#21
None of the above..........I have looked before and couldnt find the flat chasers,but someone else found them on ebay................basically,if you removed the actual cutter from the first item,made it long enough to hold,say 4",you would have a tool pretty close to a P&N thread chaser.The cutting edge is supported in the cut by a small bar,about 3/8 or so,,held in the toolpost,but the chaser is hand held and freely movable,so that it follows the thread.Very little force is needed,and the chaser scrapes the thread removing very little. each pass.,but is very quick......Probably a throwback to the old turning method of using a tool like in woodlathe.....no power feeds,or any mechanical feeds........bell turning.........EDIT just remembered where I found it.......Blackwoods catalog online............Blackwoods are a 150 yr old engineering supplier ,famous for their prices ,but prices on the kind of stuff you would have bought 50 years ago...Blackwoods part no.0393 7701.------chaser,hand,12tpi.
 
Last edited:

mickri

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 31, 2016
Messages
446
Likes
245
#22
I saw hand held chasers like you described on a woodworking forum. Did not see any for sale. I will look again. Thanks for the info. They sound like they could be useful. Another tool to buy.
 

epanzella

Active User
Registered
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
824
Likes
340
#23
A McGowan 4140 barrel blank is about $160 and you wouldn't be depending on the used barrel tolerances.
 
[6]
[5] [7]
Top