what are the issues with a mill/drill that cause so many to condem them? i wat a smaller mill that will fit in a small space and has a shorter table. having a hard time locating a smaller "old american iron" mill. getting impatient and considering a PM mill/drill. that's the only one that i would buy. unfortunately the smaller mills are made in china. anyway, what would i be sacrificeing with a mill/drill??
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Mill/drill
- Thread starter porthos
- Start date
The usual stuff really. Lower rigidity, smaller work area, etc..
If what you want is a smaller/lighter machine and you're willing to work with it's limitations, it beats a mill attachment on a lathe, or an X/Y table on a drill press.
There's also the "import stuff sucks" group. There's some truth to that, but like any generalization, there are exceptions. There are some Taiwan made units out there, if you can get those, they are improved. If not, I would not hesitate to go with PM. I have one of their China made lathes (1127) and have been happy with it. For hobby use, I don't see a problem. From what I've read, the square column versions are easier to keep trammed, but I've seen good work done of Rong Fu and similar machines.
I'm not sure there are common US made mills smaller than the Bridgeports. So is my BP a "mini-mill"?
If what you want is a smaller/lighter machine and you're willing to work with it's limitations, it beats a mill attachment on a lathe, or an X/Y table on a drill press.
There's also the "import stuff sucks" group. There's some truth to that, but like any generalization, there are exceptions. There are some Taiwan made units out there, if you can get those, they are improved. If not, I would not hesitate to go with PM. I have one of their China made lathes (1127) and have been happy with it. For hobby use, I don't see a problem. From what I've read, the square column versions are easier to keep trammed, but I've seen good work done of Rong Fu and similar machines.
I'm not sure there are common US made mills smaller than the Bridgeports. So is my BP a "mini-mill"?
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2017
- Messages
- 1,525
Round column mills lose position when the spindle housing is moved up or down.
Square column mills avoid this problem, so do knee mills,...
This is important when one needs to bore and drill on the same index {x,y,z}. One bores with a boring head and drills with a drill chuck and drill bit. Since these are long (R8 chank) and the spindle throw is limited, one often has to move the table away from the nose in order to remove and insert tooling. The square column mills and the knee mills avoid this problem simply moving the part from the nose so adequate clearance is obtained to change tooling.
Round column mills are simply beefed up drill presses where the spindle bearings can take lateral loadings.
If I were you with your limited space, I would go for a square column mill.
Square column mills avoid this problem, so do knee mills,...
This is important when one needs to bore and drill on the same index {x,y,z}. One bores with a boring head and drills with a drill chuck and drill bit. Since these are long (R8 chank) and the spindle throw is limited, one often has to move the table away from the nose in order to remove and insert tooling. The square column mills and the knee mills avoid this problem simply moving the part from the nose so adequate clearance is obtained to change tooling.
Round column mills are simply beefed up drill presses where the spindle bearings can take lateral loadings.
If I were you with your limited space, I would go for a square column mill.
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2018
- Messages
- 668
Hi Guys,
Whilst in general agreeing with the above comments, an awfully large number of machine tools, like mill drills are purchased by the inexperienced. These machines are either all good or all bad depending upon who you talk to. Its good to ask the advice of the community and get feedback, there are many limitations of the various machines. Some of which have been addressed above. The bottom line is, you have to understand what it is that you want to do and then learn to work with the machine that you eventually end up with, new or old.
Whilst in general agreeing with the above comments, an awfully large number of machine tools, like mill drills are purchased by the inexperienced. These machines are either all good or all bad depending upon who you talk to. Its good to ask the advice of the community and get feedback, there are many limitations of the various machines. Some of which have been addressed above. The bottom line is, you have to understand what it is that you want to do and then learn to work with the machine that you eventually end up with, new or old.
- Joined
- May 8, 2018
- Messages
- 336
For me it was a financial decision more than anything else. I wanted to have some milling capability but could not afford even a used BP or other knee mill. I nabbed my Enco 105-110 mill/drill for $500 off Craig's list from the original owner. I understand it's limitations and I work around them. I'll likely never be able to afford a BP or other "real" mill and will likely never really need that capability for what I'll make in my shop so I'm happy with what I have. In the event that I do have opportunity to move to a more capable mill I feel like I can recoup all or most of my investment in the Enco.
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2015
- Messages
- 9,619
I have owned a mill/drill for almost forty years. They do have limitations. They are lighter in weight and lack the rigidity of a Bridgeport class machine. You do have to plan your work to avoid having to raise/lower the head if work registration is critical. There are work-arounds, however. To solve the problem of having to raise the head when changing from an end mill to a drill, I purchased a set of R8 collets and use a collet to mount my drills. The difference in tool offsets is now only a couple of inches.
In the event of having to raise/lower the head, the problem can be reduced to having to re-register the machine to your work. I installed a 3 axis DRO on my mill/drill. With that, and a rotary table, I was able to do some high precision four axis machining. In the case where machining destroys my original reference, I will mount a small cylinder on end off to the side and use my edge finder to set 0.0.0 in my absolute coordinate system at the center of the top of the cylinder. My work coordinate system is referenced to the absolute coordinate system so registration is restored.
The lack of rigidity means that you will be taking smaller cuts but you can still get the job done. I installed a 3 axis DRO on my mill/drill. With that, and a rotary table, I was able to do some high precision four axis machining.
I have a Tormach CNC mill now but I still go back to my mill/drill for various tasks. For a hobby shop, it is a great choice.
In the event of having to raise/lower the head, the problem can be reduced to having to re-register the machine to your work. I installed a 3 axis DRO on my mill/drill. With that, and a rotary table, I was able to do some high precision four axis machining. In the case where machining destroys my original reference, I will mount a small cylinder on end off to the side and use my edge finder to set 0.0.0 in my absolute coordinate system at the center of the top of the cylinder. My work coordinate system is referenced to the absolute coordinate system so registration is restored.
The lack of rigidity means that you will be taking smaller cuts but you can still get the job done. I installed a 3 axis DRO on my mill/drill. With that, and a rotary table, I was able to do some high precision four axis machining.
I have a Tormach CNC mill now but I still go back to my mill/drill for various tasks. For a hobby shop, it is a great choice.
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2015
- Messages
- 407
I have owned a Smithy Granite 1324 for about 15 years. I have had very good experience with it.
Smithy has been around for a while - parts are readily available and their technical service group is first rate.
There is a Smithy user's group in Yahoo Groups, which has some members who have a lot of experience with the 3 In 1's including the Group founder who has a wealth of knowledge and practical experience using the Granite.
I would rate the lathe very good and the mill adequate. You can hit 0.0005 on the lathe. I added a 3-Axis DRO and a QCTP, which has made the machine much more enjoyable to use. What I also found is that the rigidity of the bench makes a huge difference in performance. The mill/drill is very top heavy, so it will really rock and roll unless it's affixed to a vert stout bench.
Under the same circumstances, I would make the same decision and buy the Smithy Granite. I was limited on space, so that machine was a good choice at the time. We have since moved, and I now have separate machines. But I kept the Granite and use the late quite often.
I love my Smithy.
Smithy has been around for a while - parts are readily available and their technical service group is first rate.
There is a Smithy user's group in Yahoo Groups, which has some members who have a lot of experience with the 3 In 1's including the Group founder who has a wealth of knowledge and practical experience using the Granite.
I would rate the lathe very good and the mill adequate. You can hit 0.0005 on the lathe. I added a 3-Axis DRO and a QCTP, which has made the machine much more enjoyable to use. What I also found is that the rigidity of the bench makes a huge difference in performance. The mill/drill is very top heavy, so it will really rock and roll unless it's affixed to a vert stout bench.
Under the same circumstances, I would make the same decision and buy the Smithy Granite. I was limited on space, so that machine was a good choice at the time. We have since moved, and I now have separate machines. But I kept the Granite and use the late quite often.
I love my Smithy.
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2017
- Messages
- 139
Everyone else has pretty much explained most of the limitations of a mill/drill. I've only occasionally had issues with work envelope on mine, but add up the height taken by a vise, boring head or other tooling and the usable space can diminish rapidly. That's less of a mill/drill issue than it is an issue with smaller machines in general, but it's still something to consider.
For the money, they're very capable machines and if you look around at some of the fine examples of work done on them it's hard not to be impressed with the capabilities. They've been around for decades for cheap, so getting a used one isn't especially hard but you may have to be patient to find an exceptional deal.
For the money, they're very capable machines and if you look around at some of the fine examples of work done on them it's hard not to be impressed with the capabilities. They've been around for decades for cheap, so getting a used one isn't especially hard but you may have to be patient to find an exceptional deal.
Does it include cutting steel