-
Welcome back Guest! Did you know you can mentor other members here at H-M? If not, please check out our Relaunch of Hobby Machinist Mentoring Program!
My PM-1236 Precision arrived today
- Thread starter Z2V
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2013
- Messages
- 497
Sorry about that crate damage, but glad it seems OK! These trucking companies frustrate me sometimes, how hard is it to ship something without beating it up?
- Joined
- May 10, 2017
- Messages
- 1,199
Thanks Matt, good talking to you today. I really appreciate you getting that package out to me.
Well, I got some more cleaning done and topped of the gearboxes with oil today. I hope to get the drip pan put on tomorrow then I can put it in place and get her leveled up.
I took a short video but can't seem to be able to add it. I couldn't resist just making a couple cuts earlier today.
Heck, I can't even add a regular pic for some reason. I had no problem yesterday, will see what tomorrow brings.
More later.
Well, I got some more cleaning done and topped of the gearboxes with oil today. I hope to get the drip pan put on tomorrow then I can put it in place and get her leveled up.
I took a short video but can't seem to be able to add it. I couldn't resist just making a couple cuts earlier today.
Heck, I can't even add a regular pic for some reason. I had no problem yesterday, will see what tomorrow brings.
More later.
- Joined
- May 10, 2017
- Messages
- 1,199
Well, I got the chip pan installed today and got the machine in its place. Wasn't too bad, took me about two hours total.
My garage floor , like most if not all, is far from level, even far from flat. I went with the heavy cast iron base for a good solid foot print. Head to tail it's a 1/4" out of level, front to back I only needed one piece of banding iron strategically placed to get the twist out. It's sitting firmly on the floor. If I get it level head to tail I will loose the solid foot print that I have now. It would likely take leveling feet to get it done. I'm using a Starrett #98 level, pretty sensitive. I'm thinking that as long as the bed has no twist and the head is inline with the tail and the head is also true to the bed what will it hurt if the bed is not level head to tail? I would think that a good solid foot print on the floor would be better for performance than having the corners jacked up on leveling feet or shim. Square feet compared to square inches of foot print.
What does the Navy do with their machines on ships and subs? I'm sure there are chapters on this if I do a search but I just threw it out here to see if it sticks.
I put the four jaw on and centered a piece of 3/4" drill rod, ready to center drill when my drill chuck arrives tomorrow. I'm gonna move forward checking head- tail alignment then make sure the head is true to the bed.
This is all new to me, I'm green as grass so if any of you guys see me heading in the wrong direction please speak up!!
More later
My garage floor , like most if not all, is far from level, even far from flat. I went with the heavy cast iron base for a good solid foot print. Head to tail it's a 1/4" out of level, front to back I only needed one piece of banding iron strategically placed to get the twist out. It's sitting firmly on the floor. If I get it level head to tail I will loose the solid foot print that I have now. It would likely take leveling feet to get it done. I'm using a Starrett #98 level, pretty sensitive. I'm thinking that as long as the bed has no twist and the head is inline with the tail and the head is also true to the bed what will it hurt if the bed is not level head to tail? I would think that a good solid foot print on the floor would be better for performance than having the corners jacked up on leveling feet or shim. Square feet compared to square inches of foot print.
What does the Navy do with their machines on ships and subs? I'm sure there are chapters on this if I do a search but I just threw it out here to see if it sticks.
I put the four jaw on and centered a piece of 3/4" drill rod, ready to center drill when my drill chuck arrives tomorrow. I'm gonna move forward checking head- tail alignment then make sure the head is true to the bed.
This is all new to me, I'm green as grass so if any of you guys see me heading in the wrong direction please speak up!!
More later
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2012
- Messages
- 9,422
Jeff, I just checked the PM1236 manual and found that there are no leveling adjusters between the cabinet and the lathe. Therefore, all leveling must be done with levelers under the cabinet or shims between the lathe and cabinet. Trust me; you do not want to mess with shims. Know that the cabinet is going to move for a week or more once you level it so you will need to re-check it periodically.
The way this works is that you bolt the lathe solidly to the cabinet and then use levelers on the cabinet to bring the lathe into level. The lathe and cabinet need not be level with the World; level as used here simply means there is no twist in the bed. In effect, you are using the cabinet levelers to twist the bed into alignment. So, you need cabinet levelers.
One product to look at are Royal Machine Mounts - supposed to be very good and not outrageously expensive. Another option are leveling casters that allow you to level the lathe accurately, then move it at need. This is the option I prefer and have found that the Carrymaster brand is amongst the best of the breed.
Your Starrett 98 has a sensitivity of 0.42mm/m, which is not that sensitive. A precision machinist level is typically around 0.02mm/m = 0.0002"/10". Such a level will move a whole unit before the Starrett 98 bubble even begins to move. An argument can be made for less sensitivity but a precision level saves time by getting you very close, very fast (God willing). I would use what you have for now but keep an eye out for a good level. You will use it more often than you think because lathes move and need re-leveling periodically.
So, to answer your question directly, no, the cabinet does not need to be level with the World. It only has to remove any twist in your lathe bed. The leveling process is not difficult but it can be time consuming, depending on how lucky you are. Sometimes I can move my lathe and then re-level it in less than 2 minutes; sometimes it can take an hour or more, depending on God's sense of humor on that day. There are tons of info on lathe leveling - take your pick.
Keep in mind that you need to level the lathe with your level, then do a 2-collar test to fine-tune it. Then you need to check your headstock alignment with the ways, then check your tailstock alignment with the spindle. All of this can take some time but do your homework and ask for advice and the guys will steer you right. If you are confused at any time, PM me.
The way this works is that you bolt the lathe solidly to the cabinet and then use levelers on the cabinet to bring the lathe into level. The lathe and cabinet need not be level with the World; level as used here simply means there is no twist in the bed. In effect, you are using the cabinet levelers to twist the bed into alignment. So, you need cabinet levelers.
One product to look at are Royal Machine Mounts - supposed to be very good and not outrageously expensive. Another option are leveling casters that allow you to level the lathe accurately, then move it at need. This is the option I prefer and have found that the Carrymaster brand is amongst the best of the breed.
Your Starrett 98 has a sensitivity of 0.42mm/m, which is not that sensitive. A precision machinist level is typically around 0.02mm/m = 0.0002"/10". Such a level will move a whole unit before the Starrett 98 bubble even begins to move. An argument can be made for less sensitivity but a precision level saves time by getting you very close, very fast (God willing). I would use what you have for now but keep an eye out for a good level. You will use it more often than you think because lathes move and need re-leveling periodically.
So, to answer your question directly, no, the cabinet does not need to be level with the World. It only has to remove any twist in your lathe bed. The leveling process is not difficult but it can be time consuming, depending on how lucky you are. Sometimes I can move my lathe and then re-level it in less than 2 minutes; sometimes it can take an hour or more, depending on God's sense of humor on that day. There are tons of info on lathe leveling - take your pick.
Keep in mind that you need to level the lathe with your level, then do a 2-collar test to fine-tune it. Then you need to check your headstock alignment with the ways, then check your tailstock alignment with the spindle. All of this can take some time but do your homework and ask for advice and the guys will steer you right. If you are confused at any time, PM me.
- Joined
- May 10, 2017
- Messages
- 1,199
"Level to the world" was my point of question. Thanks for confirming my thoughts. According to my "98" there is no twist the entire length, head to tail. I will move forward with the other checks on Friday.
My point of concern is maximum contact between the base and the floor for the best possible stability. If I put leveling feet under the base I loose contact surface with the floor.
Shims between the lathe and base would be better by my way of thinking but much more difficult to accomplish a true level., and I put a big bead of silicon between the two. Leveling between the lathe and base would leave full contact with the floor.
Mike, thanks for the input, I'll report back in a day or so
My point of concern is maximum contact between the base and the floor for the best possible stability. If I put leveling feet under the base I loose contact surface with the floor.
Shims between the lathe and base would be better by my way of thinking but much more difficult to accomplish a true level., and I put a big bead of silicon between the two. Leveling between the lathe and base would leave full contact with the floor.
Mike, thanks for the input, I'll report back in a day or so
Since the floor is concrete and you have 4 feet on each cabinet, there are no worries about having enough contact area with the floor using levelling feet. I have essentially the same lathe and cabinets on a concrete floor and have not had any problems with movement once set up with even tension on the 8 feet (1.5'' dia. each).
My lathe is levelled so that oil in the chip pan runs to the drain hole in the middle of the pan. Also to be aware if there are oil galleries in the headstock that supply oil to bearings. I tweaked the level (to the world) on my lathe for best oil flow to the bearings.
These lathes are well set up at the factory and are well crated. There is no reason to assume that there is twist in the ways or a mis aligned headstock from the get-go. Turning tests will tell you if the lathe is good to go. Sure, check alignment of everything with instruments if you have them but it is not necessary to go out and buy test bars and precision levels to set up the lathe. Turning tests will tell you everything you need to know.
My lathe is levelled so that oil in the chip pan runs to the drain hole in the middle of the pan. Also to be aware if there are oil galleries in the headstock that supply oil to bearings. I tweaked the level (to the world) on my lathe for best oil flow to the bearings.
These lathes are well set up at the factory and are well crated. There is no reason to assume that there is twist in the ways or a mis aligned headstock from the get-go. Turning tests will tell you if the lathe is good to go. Sure, check alignment of everything with instruments if you have them but it is not necessary to go out and buy test bars and precision levels to set up the lathe. Turning tests will tell you everything you need to know.
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2012
- Messages
- 9,422
- Joined
- May 10, 2017
- Messages
- 1,199
I haven't mentioned this earlier and I don't see any visible damage but the crate was dropped on the heavy end somewhere in its journey from PM to Austin.
Tozguy,
You brought up a point I didn't consider, the coolant drain in the drip pan. As it is now the drain is on the high side. I have some 1/4" plate, I might just fix that.
Thanks guys
Tozguy,
You brought up a point I didn't consider, the coolant drain in the drip pan. As it is now the drain is on the high side. I have some 1/4" plate, I might just fix that.
Thanks guys
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2014
- Messages
- 7,594
Sometimes, usually with older, well worn lathes, better results are achieved with the lathe twisted, not level and straight. With your new lathe, that should not be the case. Start with it level and without any twist. Any inaccuracies you find with turning tests are more likely from adjustment and alignment issues. There are lots of sources for knowledge on the web to get things correct. This site is for sure the most friendly place to ask questions...