Need a lot of advice on buying a VMC at auction, and experiences with Haas

3Dogs said:
I posted awhile back about wanting to buy a PM833-TV and converting it to CNC, but needing to convince my wife that it wouldn’t be too loud for her.
Well, we took a little trip to a very helpful PM833-TV owner, and he gave us a demo, which satisfied her.
But, on the way home she said “If you are going to do production, you should get a machine with a tool changer.” I told her that those were substantially bigger and more expensive, but she was OK with it.

So, now I’m like a dog who managed to catch the car...

I’m looking at Haas TM0,1,2 and 1P,2P or the Haas Mini Mill. I want a machine I can run on 1Phase 220V, and those are about all I can find.
Comparing the TMs and the Mini Mill, it seems the main differences are the TMs have much larger travel, and slower traversing, while the Mini Mills have less travel but much faster motion, and have integrated cooling. Space is a consideration, and I’m not sure I’ll ever need the large X-travel of the TMs, and the faster motion would be nice, so I’m leaning towards the Mini Mill - but I’d love to hear knowledgeable opinions.

There are several candidates on Bidspotter, but I have zero experience buying anything like this.
1) Is it safe to buy sight unseen, based only the the description?
2) How much wear do these machines get? If I buy a 15-year-old machine, what is the likelihood that the spindle/ballscrews/linear rails are OK?
3) How do I arrange to have it rigged and shipped and unloaded?
4) Should I go and see it before buying? I’m not sure what I could tell without actually running a part.
5) I hear that people don’t like the Mini Mill coolant sump. Is this a real problem?

Most of these machines are in the “Rust Belt.” That’s 2,000 miles away from me, so I’d have to be pretty sure of winning a bid to want to make that trip for inspection.

I’m sure I’m forgetting stuff, but that’s enough for now.
Any opinions are appreciated.
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wow, she knew about tool changing? she wanted you to get a better machine? She's a keeper. heavy-black-heart_2764.png
 
Make absolutely sure the Haas control is still supported. I think 2008 and newer are still factory supported.
 
3Dogs - what are your hard constraints? What are you intending to do with the machine? How much are you prepared to spend (and if you can get more of what you would really like would you then spend more to get more? - after all, there is always something just a little better)?
 
My primary goal for the machine is to manufacture housings out of Teflon. These are around 4”x3”x3” and are machined on all 6 sides. It’s a low-volume product, so speed is not hugely important. After that, I have some ideas of products for the automotive market that I want to make - out of aluminum. Also pretty small. Then, anything else I need to prototype, and probably a fair amount of front-panel routing.
My budget is $20K all in - including shipping and installation. I can’t see needing the huge travel of the Haas TM-2 machines, but if I had it, I might use it. Auto tool changer is a must - the Teflon housings will require at least 6 tools. Although my current goals are to use the mill for my own products, I might consider doing to contract machining once I got the confidence to do it.

Oh, and... I would like it to run off of 1 ph 220V.
 
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I doubt you'd find a decent supported HAAS mini with tooling and shipping for 20K
 
I can’t help you with machine choices for this, but you might want to consider installing a Phase Perfect or something similar to convert single phase to three phase. That would open up your machine options considerably, and you might find a three phase machine at a good enough price that it offsets the phase converter.

Phase Perfect | 3 Phase Power Anywhere With Our Digital Phase Converter

Three-phase power from a single-phase source anywhere you need it. Phase Perfect® digital phase converter uses modern solid-state electronics to create utility-quality three-phase power anywhere. Over 20 years of development has resulted in a robust and durable phase converter capable of...
www.phasetechnologies.com www.phasetechnologies.com
 
OP has received some good advice. Only thing I'd add is stay away from the Haas mini. Had one at tech school. Sat in corner and gathered dust. Buy a machine that is well supported and has the capacity for you can grow into. Lot easier to sell down the road as well.
 
gi_984 said:
OP has received some good advice. Only thing I'd add is stay away from the Haas mini. Had one at tech school. Sat in corner and gathered dust. Buy a machine that is well supported and has the capacity for you can grow into. Lot easier to sell down the road as well.
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Well, that’s ironic.
A Haas Super Mini has come to my attention with a 4th axis, and it’s just barely in my price range.
I think that it will be big enough to do anything I want, and it will fit in my garage, which most bigger machines won’t.
I’m going to consider it, but I have a few weeks to decide, and see if anything else pops up.
 
They must have a two shift operation at HAAS. One shift makes great machines, the other turds.

Seriously most seem very happy. But i have heard some got a lemon.
 
3Dogs,
Ultimately physical space and your budget will dictate.
Physical space on the VMC (or any machine/rotary table etc) to set up fixtures, vise etc, is also a major factor. Hence the reference to re-sale later on.

This question has come up on other machinist forums. Good firsthand experience of Minimill owners. Worth doing some internet searches.
 
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