I've sort of narrowed it down to the two machines. I'm a hobbyist with little experience. Making Model A parts, repairing farm machinery, and generally playing around. Would like (maybe) getting into building my own target rifles -- it's been a wish never fulfilled. Currently own a small SouthBend 1939 lathe that is just worn out. I've been watching YouTube videos and preparing spreadsheets, but it leads to more confusion. PM is ten weeks on delivery; people seem more excited about this brand. Also been watching videos of customers receiving their lathes with serious problems. Trying to stay under the $7,000 mark, but is it possible to do so and get a machine that will last 20 years that I can pass to kids or grandkids? Neither company's salesman would compare their equipment and company against the other. I prefer to complain about the price for a short time vs complain about the product for a long time. Any wisdom would be appreciated. Thanks
-
Welcome back Guest! Did you know you can mentor other members here at H-M? If not, please check out our Relaunch of Hobby Machinist Mentoring Program!
PM-1440GS or Grizzly 0709?? Maybe something else??
- Thread starter Gvgehrig
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2017
- Messages
- 1,525
Both machines look to be constructed from the same castings.
I happen to have a G4003G (a little brother of the 14-40) for two years and it is serving me admirably.
I happen to have a G4003G (a little brother of the 14-40) for two years and it is serving me admirably.
I have the G0709 (14x40) and am very satisfied. (I'm still pretty green at machining too.)It came with a good supply of tooling. The PM is probably a better machine though I can't say for sure. It is well thought of on this forum and I trust most of these guys.
If you have the $$, then buying a better machine just makes sense.
Chuck
If you have the $$, then buying a better machine just makes sense.
Chuck
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2018
- Messages
- 586
I only know about the pm 1340gt(can hold tenths after some modifications) and a 67 harrison boxford. I would stick with a taiwan made lathe and you still will prolly need to do some work on the lathe( vfd, heavier stand, motor upgrade, quality belts, balancing pulleys, etc.). The alternative is spending $12,000 + for a heavy lathe ready to go( likely from Taiwan or eastern Europe). good luck.
Thanks, the question is "Is it that much better to pay the extra and wait for delivery?" PM seems to have the better following. What worries me about the Grizzly are the videos showing the new machines with problems. On one, the lead screw was not turning consistently; another claimed it didn't track true on the cross slide travel. Probably, I'd be happy with either machine; I tend to over tire kick things when shopping. But it's a big investment. I was hoping someone had a strong opinion and would explain why. Jbolt, from California, posted an awesome spreadsheet comparing the machines in 2017. I am concerned the PM machines from Taiwan are what's causing more people to lean towards that brand. However, the Taiwan machines are about 30% more in cost. If the China machines are the same quality, then Grizzly is a better buy.
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2018
- Messages
- 653
I have a PM1440GS, my first machine. I also bought at the same time the PM950V. I wanted to get as big of a machine as I thought I could afford. I think I did well with the 950. My only second thoughts have been with the 1440GS.
Why second thoughts? I don’t think I will ever really need the 40 length now that I am using it. Easily could have gotten away with the 1340 or even the 1236. The 1440 uses the 1D-5 type chucks and those are more expensive than the 1D-4. Seems to me that everything from a tooling view point is more expensive, except they all share the BXA type QCTP so in that regard they are the same.
Why second thoughts? I don’t think I will ever really need the 40 length now that I am using it. Easily could have gotten away with the 1340 or even the 1236. The 1440 uses the 1D-5 type chucks and those are more expensive than the 1D-4. Seems to me that everything from a tooling view point is more expensive, except they all share the BXA type QCTP so in that regard they are the same.
You're correct. The PM1340GT looks really nice. Just ran the numbers. It looks like it costs about $800 more than the G0709 and about $1200 more than the PM1440GS. Less capabilities, but appears to be much better quality. One of my concerns was a video showing all the "chips" in the oil gear boxes after break in and again after 1 year of use. Chips means wear. The PM1340GT says hardened gears, which means the other models don't have hardened gears. Pacifica indicates extra expense even on the higher end model. This brings me back to my original goal of staying under $7000. The GT sounds great, but with the accessories I need, I'm up to $7600. Sometimes buying cheaper can be more expensive after a bit of time.
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2014
- Messages
- 4,810
I am sure you can find a video of any lathe or mill with problems, so it is more helpful to review the information as an aggregate of all the reports both positive and negative.
The Chinese machines you are comparing the 1340GT are not close to the quality of the Taiwanese lathes. It is unlikely as a hobbyist that you will wear out the gearbox or for that matter the ways, etc., these lathes have been around for decades and are still going strong (Grizzly, PM, Eisen, etc.). Main problem is reliability and quality of the components, so failure of a component like the bearings, etc. Warranty, parts and service become a significant factor. The chance of a component failure/quality defects is significantly less with a Taiwanese machine for comparable models. The PM-1440GS does have a 2" bore, I do not see the D1-5 spindle as being a significant cost factor vs. a D1-4, the only cost difference is the back plate which is nominal. Looking at the 8" 4J independent the price difference is $20. We are talking small difference in cost in comparison to major cost for the machines. Comparing the numbers between the machines tells you little of real world function.
I understand the budget and the goal, but when I purchased my 1340GT I ended up doubling my budget, and then you get into the accessories and it goes a bit crazy. But then I am of the philosophy that I buy once and cry once, I have wasted a lot of money through the years scrimping a small amount only to be disappointed and pay more in the long run. Still there is a budget and everyone has to set a limit that they can live with. There is also the 1236GT which is 1K less than the 1340GT. The 1440GS is currently out of stock, but you would need to check to see availability in the near future. The tariffs are also throwing a wrinkle in mix, and cost have gone up and will continue to rise. It all depends on the type of work and size of machine you need, the usual discussion goes buy the biggest machine you can afford, but in many cases a 12-13" swing is more than adequate. It is the person using the machine that makes a the biggest difference, and can do excellent work with any of these machines. I will say that I enjoyed using my 1340GT much more than similar sized Chinese lathes that I have used, but they all got the job done.
The Chinese machines you are comparing the 1340GT are not close to the quality of the Taiwanese lathes. It is unlikely as a hobbyist that you will wear out the gearbox or for that matter the ways, etc., these lathes have been around for decades and are still going strong (Grizzly, PM, Eisen, etc.). Main problem is reliability and quality of the components, so failure of a component like the bearings, etc. Warranty, parts and service become a significant factor. The chance of a component failure/quality defects is significantly less with a Taiwanese machine for comparable models. The PM-1440GS does have a 2" bore, I do not see the D1-5 spindle as being a significant cost factor vs. a D1-4, the only cost difference is the back plate which is nominal. Looking at the 8" 4J independent the price difference is $20. We are talking small difference in cost in comparison to major cost for the machines. Comparing the numbers between the machines tells you little of real world function.
I understand the budget and the goal, but when I purchased my 1340GT I ended up doubling my budget, and then you get into the accessories and it goes a bit crazy. But then I am of the philosophy that I buy once and cry once, I have wasted a lot of money through the years scrimping a small amount only to be disappointed and pay more in the long run. Still there is a budget and everyone has to set a limit that they can live with. There is also the 1236GT which is 1K less than the 1340GT. The 1440GS is currently out of stock, but you would need to check to see availability in the near future. The tariffs are also throwing a wrinkle in mix, and cost have gone up and will continue to rise. It all depends on the type of work and size of machine you need, the usual discussion goes buy the biggest machine you can afford, but in many cases a 12-13" swing is more than adequate. It is the person using the machine that makes a the biggest difference, and can do excellent work with any of these machines. I will say that I enjoyed using my 1340GT much more than similar sized Chinese lathes that I have used, but they all got the job done.
Thanks, that's the kind of comments I was hoping to hear. If there's a lot of difference in quality, then a small difference in cost dissipates quickly. I, too, much prefer using quality tools over cheap tools. Also, good tools can make a poor craftsman a little better at the task. And your comment about component failure was extremely important to me. I really, really hate for things to break when I use them, especially when it's not my fault.