Pre Model 40, Index Mill

CalebG

Registered
Registered
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
16
Hi all, I've been interested in machining ever since i started watching Abom79, This Old Tony and AvE years ago. A few weeks ago I saw an Index Mill on eBay for the right price and I brought it home last weekend. Haven't been able to find out what model of Index this is. Numbers on the upper left way on the column read "38 19" Could this be a Index mill from 1938 (the year Index started) and the 19th mill they ever produced? Hopefully i learned a thing or two from all the videos I've watched on machining, but this is the first time I've ever had my hands on the knobs. The machine was in decent condition (I think) but it could definitely use some maintenance, mostly a good cleaning. The table, saddle and knee were loose and the grooves in the ways packed with grease. Screws for oil ports all over the machine had been painted over as well. I'm not planning to do a full rebuild at this point, just clean all the ways, make sure there's no rough spots them, and get all the oil ports clear. Then I'm hoping I can reassemble and see how the machine feels with clean ways and fresh oil. I'm hoping some fine folks on here will be kind enough to point out any mistakes I'm making in this process. This is all new to me so you won't hurt my feelings telling me I'm doing it all wrong. Thanks in advance to anyone reading, and especially anyone lending their advice!

s-l1600.jpg s-l1600 (1).jpg s-l1600 (2).jpg s-l1600 (6).jpg s-l1600 (8).jpg IMG_20190904_181031-2.jpg
 

CalebG

Registered
Registered
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
16
Thanks! I've contacted Index, they're looking into it. It is a B&S 9 taper. Spindle bore looks a bit rough, but I measured just over a thou of run-out on the side of an endmill holder. I've taken off the table, saddle and knee. Ways look alright. Decent gouge in the left way on top of the knee and another on the left way on the column. The way on the back of the knee also has what looks to be a casting defect in it. I'm guessing this contributed to the gouge in the column, there was allot of gunk in it. The hand wheels had about 90 thou of play on the dials. The lead screws have some wear in them, and the acme thread on the lead nuts is worn so far that it's sharp. I'd like to remake those brass nuts but they're a 7/8-5 acme thread and one is left hand thread. I can't find a tap that size and I don't have a lathe to cut that thread. So I guess I'm just stuck with 90 thou of backlash for now.
 

ThunderDog

Registered
Registered
Joined
Dec 12, 2014
Messages
259
1. You're staying organized.
2. You've bought a big thing of the correct cleaning supplies, right? :)
3. If you intend to make any new parts(replacing your acme thread nuts, etc.) take accurate measurements now! So, when/if you ever make them you won't have to disassemble the machine again just to take some measurements.
4. Switching to the proper way oil and removing the pounds of dried grease will make a world of difference. I'm sure there is a good bit of runout when compared to brand new. However, over time you will get to know the machine and could still make some decent parts.

Keep up the good work.
 

Chuck K

Active User
H-M Supporter Gold Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Messages
1,080
I'm sure there is a good bit of runout when compared to brand new. However, over time you will get to know the machine and could still make some decent parts.

Keep up the good work.
[/QUOTE]
I agree. Some of my favorite machines had a lot of wear. They still made good parts. Index made a good mill.
 

CalebG

Registered
Registered
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
16
I definitely need to pick up some more Scotch-Brite and brake cleaner (I believe those are the correct cleaning supplies). As this mill is around 80 years old I'm planning to do all the cleaning by hand. Making replacement parts is probably a ways out. I have no lathe to cut threads and they don't seem to make 7/8-5 ACME taps, especially not left hand ones. But measurements are a great idea, thanks! I took this opportunity to continue learning Fusion360. Each nut took probably 3 hours to model. These were the second and third parts I've ever modeled in CAD.
Saddle Lead Nut Drawing.jpg
Table Lead Nut Drawing.jpg
 

ThunderDog

Registered
Registered
Joined
Dec 12, 2014
Messages
259
I definitely need to pick up some more Scotch-Brite and brake cleaner (I believe those are the correct cleaning supplies). As this mill is around 80 years old I'm planning to do all the cleaning by hand. Making replacement parts is probably a ways out. I have no lathe to cut threads and they don't seem to make 7/8-5 ACME taps, especially not left hand ones. But measurements are a great idea, thanks! I took this opportunity to continue learning Fusion360. Each nut took probably 3 hours to model. These were the second and third parts I've ever modeled in CAD.
View attachment 301587
View attachment 301588
Nice!! I love Fusion360. How's that saying go, "A man with a plan...".
 

Trip

Registered
Registered
Joined
Sep 19, 2017
Messages
17
Google search Evanut basically you thermoform delrin around your lead screws to make new nuts . Worked awesome for me and I was able to get the backlash on my 40h down to around .005 on the x and y axis .
 

CalebG

Registered
Registered
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
16
Google search Evanut basically you thermoform delrin around your lead screws to make new nuts . Worked awesome for me and I was able to get the backlash on my 40h down to around .005 on the x and y axis .
That is a very clever way to make a custom nut! Did you make an entirely delrin nut, or put the delrin thread into a piece of metal that bolted to the table and knee?
 

CalebG

Registered
Registered
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
16
The cleaning is slow. I've been using zep's industrial purple degreaser, brake cleaner and citrus strip. Scotch Brite is working well and copper wool helps with the stubborn areas. I've heard others have had good luck soaking the parts in a degreaser bath, I may try that.
 

T. J.

Registered
Registered
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
333
The cleaning is slow. I've been using zep's industrial purple degreaser, brake cleaner and citrus strip. Scotch Brite is working well and copper wool helps with the stubborn areas. I've heard others have had good luck soaking the parts in a degreaser bath, I may try that.
I've been down the same road. It takes a while, but you'll be happy in the end. Be careful with the purple stuff, as it can remove paint (which is useful, if that's your goal). Various things I used were Zep Fast 505, mineral spirits, scotch brite, various brushes, a pressure washer for the big stuff, a parts washer for the small stuff, and copious amounts of foul language:rolleyes::cool:.
 

Trip

Registered
Registered
Joined
Sep 19, 2017
Messages
17
I made metal casing for the delrin and bolted it in .
 

CalebG

Registered
Registered
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
16
Everything but the column has been stripped and cleaned. Gettting the spindle pulley off was a fight. I chipped the bottom with a crowbar, then bought a gear puller to pull it off, but there wasn't enough clearance around the pulley to fit the puller. I ended up drilling two holes in the pulley so I could put bolts through, which worked wonderfully. Here some in progress photos. IMG_20190922_215952.jpg IMG_20190922_215959.jpg IMG_20190922_220012.jpg IMG_20190922_220021.jpg IMG_20190923_144816.jpg IMG_20190923_144820.jpg IMG_20190923_144834.jpg IMG_20190924_195437.jpg IMG_20190924_195526.jpg
 

CalebG

Registered
Registered
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
16
And here it is currently. Column isn't quite done yet. I don't think I'm going to try to get the whole column down to bare metal. I gave it one coat of Citrus Strip, took the lose stuff off. Now i think I'll just sand the rest smooth. IMG_20190924_195421.jpg IMG_20190924_195457.jpg IMG_20190924_195504.jpg IMG_20190924_195509.jpg IMG_20190924_195511.jpg



I found a few more numbers on the motor mounting plate.

IMG_20190923_160244.jpg IMG_20190923_160254.jpg IMG_20190923_160310.jpg
 

CalebG

Registered
Registered
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
16
I'm thinking I'm going to use Sherwin Williams Industrial Enamel and a metal primer. I know there are more durable two part paints out there and hardeners to make them tougher, but this machine isn't going to be seeing hard use. I also like that the single part enamel is relatively safe to spray in my garage with just a respirator. I wiped all the parts down with engine oil after i cleaned them to prevent any rust between then and painting. I'm not sure if I should dunk them in industrial degreaser again to get that oil off or just wipe them with rags and brake clean.
 

CalebG

Registered
Registered
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
16
It's finally starting to feel like progress has been made! One coat of primer and two coats of paint on. I decided to go with a baby blue, similar to whats on the new Wells Index mills. IMG_20191001_224247.jpg IMG_20191001_031139.jpg IMG_20191001_213256.jpg IMG_20191001_213316.jpg IMG_20191001_213324.jpg IMG_20191001_213347_1.jpg IMG_20191001_213402.jpg
 

CalebG

Registered
Registered
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
16
Back tracking a bit. I plugged most of the holes in the column with bolts. I put some lock tight on them, screwed them, cut the head off and then ground them flat. It seems to have turned out pretty well. I left 4 holes on each side, the holes that held the brackets on in my earlier pictures. IMG_20190926_102126.jpg IMG_20190926_112451.jpg
 

CalebG

Registered
Registered
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
16
Assembly took longer than i expected. I used all the original fasteners, so those still had to be cleaned. The spindle pulley and the worm to rotate the head went on a lot easier than they came off. IMG_20191003_134841.jpg IMG_20191016_011942.jpg
 

CalebG

Registered
Registered
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
16
And finally, here's the completed project. Its not perfect, there are some blemishes in the paint and a small chip out of the spindle pulley. Somehow I managed to not lose a single part! Overall, I'm quite please with it. First projects will be replacement lead nuts and maybe a brass hammer head. IMG_20191017_1028422.jpg IMG_20191017_102633.jpg IMG_20191017_102730.jpg IMG_20191017_102747.jpg IMG_20191017_102749.jpg IMG_20191017_102800.jpg IMG_20191016_204136.jpg
 

brino

Confirmed Tool User
H-M Lifetime Diamond Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
4,184
Very Nice!

I wasn't sure how that colour would look over the entire machine, but now I like it.

-brino
 

CalebG

Registered
Registered
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
16
Very Nice!

I wasn't sure how that colour would look over the entire machine, but now I like it.

-brino
Glad you like it! I want sure either. Mostly I went with it because it's the color the current Wells Index machines are.
 
It can take up to an hour for ads to appear on the page. See our code implementation guide for more details. If you already have Auto ad code on your pages there's no need to replace it with this code
Top