[4]

Restoration Of My Weiler Lz 280s (imageheavy)

[3]
[10] Like what you see?
Click here to donate to this forum and upgrade your account!

Joarek

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
22
Since im restoring my lathe i thought i might aswell make a thread on it. Hope someone find it either entertaining or informative.

I aquired this lathe last month cheap after many years dreaming of owning one.
It is a german quality lathe from the 60's or early 70's and was in use at a local hospital until they upgraded to newer machines. Since then it had one owner that passed away then stored somewhere up to the point where i got it. Sadly under transportation from or to the storage, the topheavy lathe tipped over and was somewhat damaged. Nothing major but enough that it needs some work.

The damages where two cracked cast iron covers, bendt cross-feed dial"axle" and some minor issues like chipped paint etc.

IMG_2704.jpg
IMG_2768_zpse412a439.jpg
IMG_2725.jpg
IMG_2722.jpg
IMG_2707.jpg
IMG_2684.jpg

While it was in use at the hospital they also repainted the tray and some other surfaces in red that are now chipping off, aswell as doing a rather poor job.

So my plans so far:

Remove old paint, prep and new stock paintcode.
Braze the two craked cast iron covers.
Get some "expert help" going over bearings and replace if needed.
Change the V-belts and engine mounts.
Straighten or get a new used cross-feed shaft.
Find missing front cover.

This is my progress this far:

IMG_2759_zps669b9e60.jpg
IMG_2770_zps848dcd4a.jpg
IMG_2779_zps8b4b994c.jpg
IMG_2791_zpsa7f851fe.jpg
IMG_2793_zpse090fa0c.jpg
IMG_2799_zpsa95869c8.jpg
IMG_2805_zpsf5a0098f.jpg
IMG_2806_zpsfac7739e.jpg
IMG_3170_zps533ad913.jpg

More to come soon.

IMG_2704.jpg

IMG_2768_zpse412a439.jpg

IMG_2725.jpg

IMG_2722.jpg

IMG_2707.jpg

IMG_2684.jpg

IMG_2759_zps669b9e60.jpg

IMG_2770_zps848dcd4a.jpg

IMG_2779_zps8b4b994c.jpg

IMG_2791_zpsa7f851fe.jpg

IMG_2793_zpse090fa0c.jpg

IMG_2799_zpsa95869c8.jpg

IMG_2805_zpsf5a0098f.jpg

IMG_2806_zpsfac7739e.jpg

IMG_3170_zps533ad913.jpg
 

Old Iron

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Sep 29, 2010
Messages
1,558
Looks like your doing a good job, Keep posting pictures be nice you see it done.

Paul
 

Joarek

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
22
So i have been fighting this paint on and off as often as i have had a chance to since the last update. And boy that orginal paintjob is tough. The paintstripper im using hardly affects it but the red paint boils away fine. I had some help lifting the upper body off to the side and the tray is now stripped clean.

Using razorblades has been most effective and finishing it off with the wirewheel. I have not decided if im stripping the cabinet clean or just the flaking and scratches, sanding and bondo it. This was a bigger job than i anticipated..

I still have the tailstock, crossfeed etc. to do after this though im going to do that more carefull as not to damage anything.

Anyway, more pictures:

IMG_2829_zps94e5b9f6.jpg
IMG_2832_zps2592ad45.jpg
IMG_2836_zps63f771e1.jpg
IMG_2844_zps2ac7e110.jpg
IMG_2847_zps828a44ae.jpg
IMG_2854_zpsf37578a9.jpg
IMG_2855_zps851183a8.jpg

IMG_2829_zps94e5b9f6.jpg

IMG_2832_zps2592ad45.jpg

IMG_2836_zps63f771e1.jpg

IMG_2844_zps2ac7e110.jpg

IMG_2847_zps828a44ae.jpg

IMG_2854_zpsf37578a9.jpg

IMG_2855_zps851183a8.jpg
 

Guten i Norge

Newbie
Registered
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
8
Ho ho

Just do it right the first time and it will last you and serv good....

Nice to see what you are up to....

If you are in need of an "little" help just kling

All the best
Orvar
 

Building Something

Active User
Registered
Joined
Dec 30, 2012
Messages
25
Thanks for the pics, looks like a fine lathe. Your work space looks very interesting. Sure does look like the bat cave. With all those giant boulders behind the lathe I keep expecting the bat car to blast away and save the day.
 

samthedog

Active User
Registered
Joined
Nov 21, 2012
Messages
790
It looks like you have a big job ahead of you. Having rebuilt several machines I have some rules I follow in order to make life easier.

1 - Never pull more than one thing apart at a time. It's harder when you have forgotten how it goes together.
2 - Always paint what you have stripped within a couple of days. Rust forms very quickly and makes the job worse.
3 - Try to have as many of the necessary parts available before you begin stripping the machine down to shorten down-time.
4 - If at all possible, try keep the machine heated to reduce condensation especially during winter.
5 - Do whatever you can to get your hands on the instruction book and parts manual.

After having stripped a large pillar drill I was distracted by my job and couldn't get back to it for a few weeks. It was a bigger job removing the rust than it was stripping the paint. Since many of the parts were fine tolerance parts, I had to use vinegar instead of abrasives. If you plan to use chemicals to clean just be aware that HISC - hydrogen indused stress cracking - is a risk and parts should be rinsed very thoroughly as soon as the paint or rust is removed. This is especially the case for small parts or tempered parts like springs.

Good luck.

Paul.
 

Joarek

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
22
Thanks for the kind words guys, and thats some great tips Paul.

I have painted the bits that where stripped as i was afraid of swedish chrome (rust). But i had to stray from my path of repainting it in the orginal color as i did not find any alternatives within a reasonable price. So i went for a whitegray 2k epoxy using extreme care with maskingtape. I will add some pictures within a few days with a propper update, and allthough white was not what i wanted its not that bad :)
 

Zengineer

Newbie
Registered
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Messages
11
Looking really good so far, looking forward to the update.

The red paint looks like Glyptal, which would have been used to shed oil. It's a General Electric product used as a liquid electrical insulator as I recall, but also used on the inside of engine blocks, and other surfaces that see oil spray to help promote the oil returning to the sump.

Is it required? No. There may have been some sound rationale behind using it though.

Maybe its just paint, but the orange-red hue made it look exactly like Glyptal to my eyes.
 

Joarek

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
22
Hey again, and sorry for the late update. But you know how it is, stuff gets in the way and you get sidetracked.
Nonetheless, im back on track and have made some progress.

Yes, the workshop is underground, but instead of bats there's rats.. :miner:
1.2 meter thick stonewalls and apart from the gate/entrance it's all like a bunker. Makes it really efficient to heat up during the wintertime and keeps it rather cool aswell summertime.
But i have some issues with moisture and water i have to solve.

I belive the red paint is Hammerite, but it had some nice properties to it like you decribed, and i think you are right on your theory. The epoxy is chosen with the same thought in mind.

Here's where im at as of now though:

I removed the spindle to first of all prepare it for a new seal for the oilbath, and to be able to mount two new v-belts that i have ordered. It was kinda tedious but i made it.
I also used alot of time masking with tape and using electric wire butts to seal off small screw holes and rivetholes where the machineplates where. And all that after i removed the old paint ofcourse.

The final step before mixing the epoxy and hardner where washing down the parts to be painted with brakecleaner. The last images is the first coat of epoxy, im doing 3 coats i think.
And also not in a picture is the finished painted bed i did a while ago.

IMG_0215.jpg
IMG_0216.jpg

IMG_0218.jpg
IMG_0219.jpg
IMG_0220.jpg

IMG_0222.jpg
IMG_0223.jpg


IMG_0234.jpg
IMG_0241.jpg
IMG_0246.jpg
IMG_0249.jpg
IMG_0253.jpg
IMG_0254.jpg
 

Joarek

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
22
Some more images.The order is somewhat shuffled, for that i apologize.

IMG_2869.jpg
IMG_2871.jpg
IMG_2880.jpg
IMG_2890.jpg
IMG_2893.jpg
 

Old Iron

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Sep 29, 2010
Messages
1,558
Looking good you'll have it up and making chips soon. I'll be looking for the next installment.

Paul
 

Joarek

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
22
Small update:
Assembled as much as i bothered since im waiting for some parts. But this is what it looks like as of now. I will wait til after summer to paint the underbody simply cause i want to start using it :)

I also gave the upper cast iron cover a go with chemical metal, but the brand i used was utter crap so i cleaned it all off. As i grew impatient, i tried to weld it with MIG (all though i know thats not the best way to go about it) with more than enough success.
I tacked it up first and then ground a deep groove a little over halfway into the casting, wirewheeled it and cleaned with acetone and after some trial and error with the settings i got pretty decent results with minimal porosity. And where i was unlucky i ground down again and filled up.

I ran out of Co2 (of course) so thats all i got done, but i made sure to let it cool slowly under some blankets and when im done i will heat it all up and let cool in sand as to remove stress and tension. But as far as durability it will be more than enough.


IMG_0298.jpg
IMG_0322.jpg
IMG_0321.jpg
IMG_0317.jpg
IMG_0314.jpg
IMG_0310.jpg
 

Joarek

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
22
So i got the parts i waited for and reassembled the remaining for a test run. And it seems i might have a problem with the variator.
A nerve-wreckening grinding noise !

IMG_0346.jpg
IMG_0347.jpg
IMG_0360.jpg
IMG_0361.jpg

And here i'm trying to show the variator, but it's kinda awkward to get a camera in there:


IMG_0355.jpg
IMG_0356.jpg

I have tried to adjust the belts both ways to see if that eliminated the grinding, but neither tightening nor slackening gave any other result. The manual gave no insight so im at a standstill sadly.

And here is a video of the problem:

[video=youtube_share;c22t-zLUgJs]http://youtu.be/c22t-zLUgJs[/video]
 
D

Deleted member 473

Guest - Please Register!
Guest - Please Register!
Replace the variable pitch belt. The edges don't look too good causing some of the noise.

While you have it tore down replace the bearings in the yoke. That should eliminate most of the noise problems.

Ken
 

Joarek

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
22
The belt seemed fine, it gave off a mild rubbery sound and the microphone misrepresent what it actually sounds like.

But after much searching i think i know whats going on:

"the drive transmitted to the spindle though a sliding internal tooth clutch"
img7.gif

I did cauth a glimse behind the collet where a spring sits, a brass gear when i fiddled with the camera. I will hopefully get time to look at it tomorrow and get an idea whats happening.

img7.gif
 

Ray C

Platinum
Staff member
Registered
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Messages
5,215
Very nice work. Looks like a nice machine.

Ray
 

woodtickgreg

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Jun 22, 2012
Messages
1,522
Nice to see someone restore a lathe we don't see in the states much. Nice work. And yes, when restoring any old machines a wire wheel is your best friend.
 

Ray C

Platinum
Staff member
Registered
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Messages
5,215
I'm having a hard time understanding the purpose of the variator. The flat belt is driving the V-belts through what appears to be a splined shaft with a spring clutch of some sort. I don't get it.

When I first heard the sound, I wondered if there are bearings in the housing that holds the shaft and if they're worn-out. Also, what prevents the metal pulley of the v-belts from rubbing against the housing?


Nice looking lathe though and I hope you solve the problem.


Ray
 

samthedog

Active User
Registered
Joined
Nov 21, 2012
Messages
790
Try rubbing a candle on the edges of the 2 belts. I have a drill press that made a similar noise. The candle wax will lubricate the belt slightly when under pressure and likely get rid of that noise. DO NOT do this to the large belt. This will result in a glazed belt that will slip on the cones.

Paul.
 

Joarek

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
22
Thanks for all the sugestion guys. Turns out i was in luck! It was in fact the rear cover on the AC motor that touched the fanblades :phew:

Now i wish i had thought of that before i removed everything else, but atleast i had an excuse to clean everything and get a better understanding of the variator as a bonus.
It was just by luck i thought of turning on the motor with everything else removed to see what it sounded like solo.
I also managed to break off a cast iron adjuster i had to grind down and weld back on, so hurrah..

Anyway, i assembled everything back again and made some swarf with a big smile. And from now im focusing on making the last parts ready.
The tailstock needs to be sanded and painted along with a few small bits and pieces.
The crossfeed-screw needs to be straightened or cut and spliced, and a new knob bought.
Make a new knob for the variator adjuster.
And of course finish welding the oil cover and the top cover and paint those aswell.

Here on the first picture is the troublemaker that made an awefull noise :cussing:
IMG_0371.jpg
IMG_0365.jpg
IMG_0376.jpg
IMG_0373.jpg
IMG_0370.jpg

Oh and i mounted a nice 12V lamp with a intergrated converter (230 to 12v) as seen on the images.
 

Joarek

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
22
I'm having a hard time understanding the purpose of the variator. The flat belt is driving the V-belts through what appears to be a splined shaft with a spring clutch of some sort. I don't get it.
Ray
This was new to me aswell before i aquired the lathe, but i later found out it's quite common in motorcycles, snowmobiles and scooters among many things.
On the Weiler the upper pulley-halfs are forced together with a spring and rides along a spline as you mentioned, where the bottom pulley is adjusted in and out with hydraulics.

Here i found a gifanimation that perhaps shows you the principle.
variatoranimation.gif
Source with explanation: http://www.teamcalamari.com/zuma/variator.html

variatoranimation.gif
 

Ray C

Platinum
Staff member
Registered
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Messages
5,215
Ughhh, I feel silly now. Should have figured that out by looking at it -especially since I've seen it before in other places usually under the name of "vari-drive".

Thanks!

Ray

This was new to me aswell before i aquired the lathe, but i later found out it's quite common in motorcycles, snowmobiles and scooters among many things.
On the Weiler the upper pulley-halfs are forced together with a spring and rides along a spline as you mentioned, where the bottom pulley is adjusted in and out with hydraulics.

Here i found a gifanimation that perhaps shows you the principle.
View attachment 54558
Source with explanation: http://www.teamcalamari.com/zuma/variator.html
 

woodtickgreg

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Jun 22, 2012
Messages
1,522
Yup they are quite common in snowmobiles and atv's and they call them torque converters. They are very efficient at keeping the machine in the power band of the engine. They are quite common in wood working lathes also, as well as variable speed bridgeport type mills, and on and on, even used in cars too!
 
D

Deleted member 473

Guest - Please Register!
Guest - Please Register!
"Here on the first picture is the troublemaker that made an awefull noise " {Quote}


Amazing what you find when you are looking for the source of noise!

I've had the same thing happen to me a time or two over the years.

Ken
 

Joarek

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
22
Nearly done with the two cast iron covers. That was way much work than i would have guessed, but it turned out quite ok.
I got little to no warpage and sandpaper "lapped" (if thats the right term) it down to sit flat again.
Still have to grind off and fill in some minor pockets and bondo and paint them though. But overall im more than happy with the outcome.

IMG_0388.jpg
IMG_0389.jpg
IMG_0390.jpg
IMG_0392.jpg
 

Joarek

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
22
So i have an issue alligning the tailstock on the X-axis.
Now i have read up on the manual and it indicates the adjustmentscrew but i lack the range of motion to get it where it needs to be.

IMG_0788.jpg
IMG_0787.jpg

The handwheel on the tailstock is scewed and has most likley taken a hit when it fell over, but i would not think the cast tailstock has been deformed.

Id say i lack 2-3 mm tops.

Any tips would be great though.
 

woodtickgreg

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Jun 22, 2012
Messages
1,522
Is the tail stock casting a 2 piece unit? If it is you could just shim it with some brass shim stock.
 
[5] [7]
Top