Restoring an old powered hacksaw

MrCrankyface

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2019
Messages
91
Figured I'd share my restoration project!
I've always found these old machines quite cool and when a neighbour offered me a defective one for free, I couldn't say no! :D

This is the machine as I got it, it runs but won't lower the sawblade so you have to manually push it against the work piece, which becomes quite the challenge and dangerous as heck when it's moving back and forth.


The thick bars protruding on the side are from an automatic feed system that's been cut off.
By pure chance I came across a previous owner of this saw and he gave me these two pictures of how it used to look.
1.jpg 2.jpg

At first I was just going to get the downfeed to work again and leave it at that, not spend too much time on it because I have quite a lot of other stuff that also needs doing.
But just trying to understand how the machine is built and what could be the problem, I was already in waaay too deep to not do something more serious.
Just trying to get the downfeed mechanism out I somehow ended up with this after like 14 hours of work ... Many of those were just shoveling out old sludge and nasty cutting oil.


Every little mechanism is completely packed with old grease that is long overdue for a cleanup, this picture was after I scooped handfuls of it out.
IMG_2079.JPEG IMG_2078.JPEG

Eventually after a lot of beating I managed to get the entire hinge mechanism off and the parts are starting to pile up.
IMG_2082.JPEG

One really interesting thing is this motor. It's 2 motors in one, double shafts and everything.
There's a smaller shaft, inside the bigger shaft, powering the smaller pulley.
IMG_2110.JPEG

With everything stripped it was time for it to travel outside for some major cleaning.. Quite a big of degreaser, scrubbing and high pressure washer.
By now you can even see that it has some color underneath all the crud. :D
IMG_2113.JPEG IMG_2115.JPEG
 
Last edited:

MrCrankyface

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2019
Messages
91
Continuing on.
Using a mix of sanders and wire brushes, I got most of the old crud off.


Both sprayed and brushed on a layer of epoxy primer.


And ontop of that a layer of grey polyurethane.
It looks quite light in the pictures, as it hardened it became a bit darker.
I did so many mistakes here that really ****** me off. Stupid mistakes like how I somehow forgot to mask the top and floor, sprayed way too much paint on and so on.
I will have to get back to this and sand down the runs and do a final top coat again.



I did a quick brushjob on the legs, I think the black should constrast nicely.


To get away off from the frustration of the bad paintjob(I don't like painting but I like a good end result..), I started working on the pump which was the initial problem.
To the left you have the "lid" of the main piston and to the right is the main unit I guess.
The big rod on the lid has a smaller rod inside it, and the big piston has a smaller piston inside it that gets act upon from this smaller rod.
Basically as the saw runs, it acts upon the smaller rod, transfering the motion to the smaller piston down inside the bigger piston.


A closer look on the main piston and the smaller rod.


With the bottom taken off the main piston, you can see this smaller piston. I have taken the seals off it for the photo.


Eventually all that was left to take apart was this part on the lid.
Aaand here we find a completely busted seal.
Hopefully this is all that was keeping it from working as intended.
IMG_2161.JPEG
 
Last edited:

Martin W

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter Gold Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Messages
760
You have a great saw there! Nice job.
Cheers
Martin
 

Nogoingback

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter Gold Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2016
Messages
2,095
Not sure I understand what the dual pistons do, but it looks interesting. Great work.
 

brino

Confirmed Tool User
H-M Lifetime Diamond Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
5,269
This is very interesting, I have never seen a unit like that.
Thanks for sharing this.

I bet all your photos will come in real handy as it all goes back together!

-brino
 

mattthemuppet2

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter Gold Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2013
Messages
2,452
wow, that's a serious power hacksaw. You'll have a very useful machine on your hands when you finish working on it.
 

MrCrankyface

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2019
Messages
91
Thanks all!

Not sure I understand what the dual pistons do, but it looks interesting. Great work.
I find it hard to explain! :D

At the top of the hydraulic piston unit, there's an axle with an oval part on it. This oval part keeps pushing and releasing the smaller rod inside the bigger rod.
The smaller rod transfers this pushing motion down inside the bigger piston, thus making the smaller piston move back and forth(it's spring loaded in one direction).
Somehow this pumping creates pressure to push the big piston down, bringing the entire saw down onto the workpiece.

There's a seperate adjustment where you can adjust how much to bottleneck this system, thus controlling how fast or hard it pushes against the work piece.

Hopefully that makes more sense.
 

Nogoingback

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter Gold Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2016
Messages
2,095
Hmmm... So the little piston creates the hydraulic pressure to move the large piston as well as acting to regulate the pressure?
 

Chipper5783

Active User
H-M Supporter Gold Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
902
That seems similar to the Kasto power hack saw. I suspect the dual piston provides for a blade lift on the return stroke. The small change in volume from the smaller (inner) piston, which is controlled by the oval mechanism on top, allows the main cylinder to apply the blade down pressure on only the forward stroke.

I'm not sure if the Kasto is the same (I've never pulled mine apart), but it also uses a rear cylinder to force the blade down. I know on the Kasto, if it has been sitting for a long time, you have to bleed the hydraulics before the feed system will function. That had me stumped for a while - as always, it is an easy task - once you know how.
 

MrCrankyface

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2019
Messages
91
It's indeed a Kasto, a VBS 202A according to Kasto themself.
Definitely sounds like that function would make sense!
The pressure regulation is done seperately elsewhere on a big rotating plate, there seems to be like a bleed function.
There more you tighten it, the more it constricts the flow. Since I haven't gotten it running yet I'm not sure if tighter means faster or slower downfeed.

On this version there's only this main piston that controls feed.
On the back there's a spring which I assume is to help pull it back up and there's also a big damper/spring combo on the front, next to the piston unit.
The one in this picture:

Hopefully I can get back to working on the saw this weekend.
 

brino

Confirmed Tool User
H-M Lifetime Diamond Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
5,269
Thanks for the manufacturers name, I was about to ask......

The only reference I found to Kasto on Vintage Machinery is this, under the "Racine" section:
In about 1979 or shortly before, KASTO, Inc. purchased the assets of Racine; they changed their name KASTO-Racine, Inc.
http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=1085&tab=0

They do still exist and have a web site:
https://www.kasto.com/us/

This Racine document:
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=16557
mentions a very little about a couple different hydraulic feed systems they had.

1596112352096.png 1596112398860.png
....but neither looks like the one being dealt with here.

Any idea the age of this machine?

-brino
 

MrCrankyface

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2019
Messages
91
The machine is from 1970, it still had a (very worn) sign on the rear.
When I was in contact with kasto about this machine they managed to find this manual in their archives.
They seem to be generally hard to find information about.. I guess bandsaws are a lot more popular.

My german is definitely not good enough to read it so I've mostly been checking the schematics when taking it apart, trying to figure things out.
 

Attachments

MrCrankyface

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2019
Messages
91
Alright so if I'm going to be positive about having to redo this, at least I can make the finish a lot better with the thick polyrethane and primer acting as filler.
You can see just how rough it was, lots of highspots.
IMG_2194.JPEG

After several hours of sanding...
IMG_2196.JPEG

Of course I managed to screw this up again by applying too much paint and getting quite a lot of runs again. Ah well, at least I'm learning stuff.. :cool:

So a second, much faster, sanding session followed by another try at painting it.
This time I really took care with setting up the spray gun by spraying at a steel sheet first, adjusting the paint flow and pattern etc.
I was also super careful when painting, I think I might've put on a coat that was too light but it looks alright!
IMG_2222.JPEG IMG_2223.JPEG
 

brino

Confirmed Tool User
H-M Lifetime Diamond Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
5,269
Personally, I HATE painting!

I know that prep is the majority of the work, I do that.
I know that many light coats are better than a single "too much" dripping coat.
I know to keep a wet edge!

All that work and it still comes out so-so at best
I HATE painting!

Your results look better than I have ever achieved!
I like the colour too.

-brino
 

Nogoingback

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter Gold Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2016
Messages
2,095
That's probably as good or better a paint job than when it was new. Looks great.
 

MrCrankyface

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2019
Messages
91
Thanks!

Brino, I couldn't agree more.. I don't mind the prepwork but applying the paint always feels like throwing a dice, never knowing if it's too much or too little. I'm very happy about the results though!
 

middle.road

Granite Stoopid...
H-M Supporter Gold Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2014
Messages
3,403
There's folks that can paint and there are those who can't.
Guess which camp I belong to?
Now my Son can rattle-can with the best of them. Me? I get runs no matter what, even if the surface is flat and level.
Personally, I HATE painting!

I know that prep is the majority of the work, I do that.
I know that many light coats are better than a single "too much" dripping coat.
I know to keep a wet edge!

All that work and it still comes out so-so at best
I HATE painting!

Your results look better than I have ever achieved!
I like the colour too.

-brino
 

MrCrankyface

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2019
Messages
91
:grin:

Hardly any work but WOW, getting it back on the feet was super motivating!
Still awaiting a reply from kasto about the spare parts I need.
IMG_2227.JPEG
 

Attachments

Last edited:

mattthemuppet2

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter Gold Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2013
Messages
2,452
There's folks that can paint and there are those who can't.
Guess which camp I belong to?
Now my Son can rattle-can with the best of them. Me? I get runs no matter what, even if the surface is flat and level.
the trick is always to do lots of light coats, rather than a few thick ones. That's the best way to get a good even coat and enough layers to be durable in my experience.
 

MrCrankyface

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2019
Messages
91
I find that if I do light coats the end result is always gritty, like the paint doesn't flow out together in a nice surface.
And if I go too thick, it obviously starts running away from me. :grin:

It's a hard balance and super hard to judge how much paint you've applied..

What seems to work for this paint is to use a lot of light and use the reflections to judge how "prickly" the surface is.
If the surface is smooth then you've already applied too much paint and it's gonna start running in a few minutes.
Leaving it VERY slightly prickly seemed to work, that way it would flow together after a little bit.
 

MrCrankyface

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2019
Messages
91
Finally had some time over to work on this again, but it's 32c outside so work isn't fast..

I went over the miserable saw-off support.
The bottom limit has been incorrectly set so this thing has been sawn into over and over again.
If you look close there's a removeable piece, not sure if that's a stock solution or if someone has "fixed" this before.


Chamfered the horrible cut in the mill and also smoothed over the back plate to remove those half-holes.
Gave everything a little sanding to remove burrs and various places where someone had probably used this as an anvil and created a lot of raised edges.
IMG_2285.JPEG

I took the old round bars that were chopped off and chopped them off even more and faced them in the lathe. They were a real hazard before when sticking out with sharp edges ...
They do serve a function in the sense that they plug up some holes where the coolant would leak out.


Looks a lot nicer than before I think.
It doesn't really show up in the photos but there is a slight chamfer on the outside.
 
Last edited:

Papa Charlie

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter Gold Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2017
Messages
485
Wow, what a great find. I much prefer a power hacksaw to band saws. Hope to find one of those myself.

My compliments on your work. Very nice. I am with you on paint. I can fab just about anything in metal or wood, but when it comes to painting, I can screw up a wet dream.

Looking forward to following this thread. Thank you.
 

MrCrankyface

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2019
Messages
91
Thanks, glad to have you along on the journey! :grin:

Since I'm still waiting to hear from Kasto on the spare parts(they were going to send me a price for the stuff I need) I decided to take a look at the motor.
It's a pretty beefy unit ... Tried to carefully wash it with degreaser and high pressure washer to get the worst off.


Like most motors it has a fan behind the back cover, pressed onto the shaft.


Just trying to take the thin aluminium fan off.. Having to split the motor up so I can put the shaft in the press.
This is the rear motor that runs the inner shaft. The front motor runs the outer shaft.


Finally got it off here so now I can start cleaning this thing properly.
Still contemplating wether to paint the motor in the same color as the base or just go with black.
I've already spent a while cleaning the fan and cap at this time.
IMG_2293.JPEG
 
Last edited:

MrCrankyface

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2019
Messages
91
Yep! I've run the machine before picking it apart. The only defective part is that it doesn't lower, which is most likely that broken seal in the hydraulic unit.
When running it I didn't know it was a dual motor but as far as I can remember, both pulleys spun around as they should.

I'm actually suprised how nice it seems inside. Even the bearings are smooth as butter.
 

Papa Charlie

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter Gold Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2017
Messages
485
Nice, having the motor rebuilt can get expensive.
 

MrCrankyface

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2019
Messages
91
Well that was ... Messy.
Scraped the worst of the mess off and used IPA and wirebrushes to get the rest.
Cleaned up pretty nice, my arms were black up to my elbows though.

Had to lathe out a little adapter to pull the inner pulley off, gotta love working with plastics.
Even on a small lathe like mine you can run some pretty high speeds and feeds!
Just machined a shoulder that was a loose press-fit into the shaft so the "adapter" wouldn't fall out too easy when pulling the pulley off.


There's also one cooling fin that's been busted, I didn't want to risk welding on the motor out of fear of warping so decided to just smooth it out.
IMG_2323.JPEG

It should now almost be ready for paint!
I did clean out all old grease and dirt before applying new and putting the motor back together.
 
Last edited:

Papa Charlie

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter Gold Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2017
Messages
485
Looks almost new. Nice job. A lot of satisfaction after going through all that to see the end product.
 

MrCrankyface

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2019
Messages
91
Feels like I'm starting to get a grip on painting!
Incredibly pleased with this, way over expectation.
Unfortunately I splashed some paint on the tiles so if you don't hear from me again, the wife found out. :grin:

IMG_2363.JPEG
IMG_2362.JPEG
 
Last edited:
It can take up to an hour for ads to appear on the page. See our code implementation guide for more details. If you already have Auto ad code on your pages there's no need to replace it with this code
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock