Seting up a barrel?

Bobby Bailey said:
Why would you assume I don't know how long it takes to get to zero runout or that I do less than proper work just because I make a profit. You assume a lot in making blanket statements about gunsmiths.
Bobby
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Hi Bobby. Sorry I missed this question. My assumption is based on what I have seen. work carried out by so called professionals that cut corners at every place. So that they can make up more time to squeeze in another job. Like the use of Delrin bushes at the outboard end of the tail stock. That to me is cheating. Taking top money and not doing the correct procedure. I am hoping you are in agreement with me on this.
Hopefully you will see where I am coming from here. I apologise if my first ramblings covered world wide Smiths. being from the Uk. My concerns are from experiences in this country.

I would appreciate your honest opinion here. Do you think that just under $1300 is a fair price to have a new barrel fitted. No other truing work, just a barrel off and a new barrel on. I am interested to see how you answer this.

I can buy a Kreiger or Bartlein barrel for £300.

Can you tell me how long it takes you to do a rebarrel. That is a straight forward question that will probably get a response that not all barrels are the same. Nothing to do with the barrels. It is all in the set up, Ok if the barrel has a less concentric bore, it may take a bit longer. You know how much you charge for your work, so tell me here how long it takes you to do a rebarrel. This is a question that I never see answered on Forums or else where come to that. Why is it a big secret.

I know there is more time spent on set up than actually doing the work. You know how long it would take you to do a barrel. Do you think that over £550 not $$$$$, pounds is a fair price, thats deducting the price of the new barrel from the overall price charged.

I see prices quoted in the USA for this type of work and for action truing. It is no where near the prices charged over here. Why do the smiths in the UK charge these crazy high prices. because people are paying into it. I know people that have bought new rifles rather than rebarrel an old well made rifle.

Does these high prices mean we have better quality Smiths in this country, that require a higher payment for their skill sets. I do not think so.

I am all for making a profit Bobby but outright conning a customer is not something I have ever done. I never struggled for work in any job I have done as self employed. One job I had, I had 2 years work ahead of me. No advertising.

When it comes to all things shooting related the prices have shot through the roof. Just look at the prices of Optics in the last 5-8 years.

I recently purchased two grizzly Rods, for different calibers. I believe there is three Rods that cover a range of calibre's. I have not yet used these rods. My set up was done the old way using two indicators running on rods. One at the spider end and the other at the chuck end.

If I feel comfortable with the grizzly rods. I will sell two of my indicators to invest in some other tooling.

I look forward to your reply.

Regards
 
Bordersika,
There are indeed three of the Grizzly rods that cover most needs. I believe you will like them. Though we still use indicator rods for some jobs.
It takes me about 4 hours to do a barrel (I am slow):) and we charge about 300.00. At the prices you are talking about you could easily get the barrel work and action truing here and probably some more goodies. Maybe, we're too cheap. ;)
Bobby
 
Bobby Bailey said:
Bordersika,
There are indeed three of the Grizzly rods that cover most needs. I believe you will like them. Though we still use indicator rods for some jobs.
It takes me about 4 hours to do a barrel (I am slow):) and we charge about 300.00. At the prices you are talking about you could easily get the barrel work and action truing here and probably some more goodies. Maybe, we're too cheap. ;)
Bobby
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Hi Bobby
Thank you for your reply. You are the first person when asked that has came straight out with a time scale without adding but ifs.

Slow is good. Fast is cutting corners. I would say when you are doing a barrel. That barrel should be done as if it is being fitted to your rifle. The same care and precision that you would expect from the work that you would put into it for yourself. Once it is finished, it then becomes the customers barrel.

I know of at least half a dozen people that have went down the same route as myself. Doing their own barrel work, due to prices that are pulled out of a phonebook. Surely the $300 you mention is only for your time put into doing the work not the cost of a barrel as well. Which I would think would be about the same price again. For $600 per Rifle. I would not have laid out the investment in tooling to do my own work.

I hope you now understand the frustration of some of us UK shooters that are being over charged for the work done.

I do realise that they pay VAT at 20% over here which is charged on top of prices. That still makes it £750 to do a barrel.


Cheers
 
You are correct in the 300.00 is for our time and a good barrel would be about another 300.00 like you said. Now that being said, it is rare that we don't also true-up the action, pillar bed , ect.
Bobby
 
Using an indicator rod, and adjusting the muzzle end to align the bore "path" so to speak has been done for quite a while, but I thin it's geared more to the long range guys where they clock the barrel to point up. Most short range benchrest guys don't do this, rather they align the throat and the muzzle.

Barrel drilling has gotten much better in the past ten years. Back then, it was common to set a barrel up through the headstock and spin it and see so much "worm hole" it would make you sea sick. Nowadays, things are quite the opposite, most barrels run very straight.

One other thing, I indicate the grooves, reaching up into the barrel with a long stylus indicator. The grooves are the majority of the barrel profile, and this centers the bullet more than a lands do. Of course in a perfect world, the lands would all be the same height, the grooves would all be the same depth, but that's not the way it is. If you spend some time with a .0001" indicator in a barrel and slowly rotate by hand and watch, you'll see the variances. You have to pick your poison, the bullet will center itself in the majority of the barrel ID, so that is what needs to be indicated.
 
Stob said:
Barrel drilling has gotten much better in the past ten years.
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What in your opinion has made the barrel drilling get much better in the last 10 years.

I think you will find that a lot of the cut barrels are rifled on pre war Pratt & Whitney Sine Bar Riflers. I am struggling to work out how they could get them to perform better in the last 10 Years.

Cheers
 
Metallurgy and Quality Control. Might be the process has changed, might not, but those two factors surely could have. They may be tossing more of the "bad" ones.
 
I'm no barrel maker, and I can't explain why, but I chamber quite a few barrels every year, and have for over 15 years. The barrels I work with are the cream of the crop, not the low grade stuff. But, there is no doubt the drilled hole is much straighter than before. I have sent barrels back to the maker in the past, told them what I see, and have never had a rebuttal. There is also a couple of makers that consistently drill straighter holes.

Now, don't mistake this that a not so straight barrel won't shoot. There was a private maker several years ago that made barrels in his garage. His barrels, especially his 30 calibers, shot better than any others. But, when you set it up through the headstock, you would swear it was a cork screw! If you tried to align those barrels with an indicator rod and move the muzzle, you would have been amazed how far out it was. But the damn things shot!
 
Stob said:
I'm no barrel maker, and I can't explain why, but I chamber quite a few barrels every year, and have for over 15 years. The barrels I work with are the cream of the crop, not the low grade stuff. But, there is no doubt the drilled hole is much straighter than before. I have sent barrels back to the maker in the past, told them what I see, and have never had a rebuttal. There is also a couple of makers that consistently drill straighter holes.

Now, don't mistake this that a not so straight barrel won't shoot. There was a private maker several years ago that made barrels in his garage. His barrels, especially his 30 calibers, shot better than any others. But, when you set it up through the headstock, you would swear it was a cork screw! If you tried to align those barrels with an indicator rod and move the muzzle, you would have been amazed how far out it was. But the damn things shot!
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Interesting reading

I had a long conversation with a barrel maker about a week ago, we spoke for over two hours on the phone. He called me out of the blue. Never spoke to him before in my life.
He had been told by someone that I had a machine that may be of interest to him. He was given poor information. We had a great conversation though covering a lot of subjects relating to barrel making and chambering. Totally made me have a rethink of the direction that I have been going so far.

Yip. I can accept the quality control and better steel being a factor in a better turned out barrel. I was not questioning the comments that Stob made as being untrue. I just like to know the reasons behind things so that my old head can understand better.

The person making the Barrels at home that were like corkscrews, wow. I wonder if it was the quality of the work from the person that chambered these barrels that got them to shoot as good as they did. In my opinnion, the barrel can have a kink in it and be rusty on the outside, as long it can consistently produce one hole groups.

Thank you for both of your replies.

Cheers
 
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