Shaper Scraping Help

[Richard King 2]

I just saw this.....I'll come back and comment later...I've been busy scraping a machine for $$ I just helped scrape a Cinc. 36" shaper in Florida..

 

[Janderso]

You and Kieth are scraping the planer and shaper?
There is a lot of talent in that shop right now!

 

[Richard King 2]

All you guys know I love Keith as a friend and he helped get me known on the You Tube forums. But I was helping him and Lance B scrape the machine. I was in the next room teaching a class and would go in and consult on the rebuild they were attempting on the shaper for the host who is a friend of theirs. I hate to say it as but they were making some simple alignment mistakes until I checked in on them. Having the right tools and a rudimentary understanding of scraping doesn't automatically make you an expert and you cam or even should try to teach it. I have to go now...a paying rebuild job awaits me. Remember you can't believe everything you see on You Tube.

 

[Richard King 2]

Question one. Have photo's of the top of base before you started? The factory machined the top clearance at the same time they planed the ways. u So You could have depth miked down from the clearance to ways to see what the factory left it. Usually there are unworn areas next to the wear where you can measure to get that info. I just checked the G. Schlesinger book Testing Machine Tools and it says to leave the ram travel to column so as it travels out it is .0008" in 12" inclined up. They do that because the ram sags and the front of ram base wears there first because of that
s where the dirt gets in first. I to say this, but I bet it was better before you decided to scrape it. That square your using does not look precision. Did you have it tested before using it? That square should be .0002" / 12 inches minimum. The picture shows the host scraping the inner unworn area down before we used the ram to blue up the top. How did you scrape the ram? On a table like Keith is doing? Have photo's of that?

 

[Richard King 2]

I just spent an hour looking fir South Bend Shapers and a 7" is all I could find. It looks like the ways weren't scraped. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...AFA16E700C9954FA1670AFA16E700C995&FORM=WRVORC

 

[Richard King 2]

Here is some super pictures of the shaper...look at page 2 and 3 too

South Bend Shaper

 

[Pete301]

Here is some super pictures of the shaper...look at page 2 and 3 too

South Bend Shaper

Hi Richard.... Thank you for the time and effort you spent looking up South Bend shaper videos and thru reference books...
I recall that you've said one needs to do detective work on a machine before you start scraping. This shaper needed Sherlock Holmes (or maybe you)!!
When I bought it the previous owner said a past owner had it "ground" (??) to get it to cut perfect. But of course it was far from that. The deeper the depth of cut the more the shaper cut a taper front to back. Lots of areas needed work. I'll spare you the lengthy details, but it was the flat column ways that prompted the question about scraping in the correct incline and Catsparadise helped me understand how to figure it out.
I'm now scraped it very close to a 1/2 thousandth incline, but I'm going to have to put down trucite to make up for what I scraped away and the past owner "ground" away. I couldn't afford the Waylock epoxy so i plan to use Loctite 380 with the .062 trucite. I'll take some pics and post my progress on this
To answer to your questions
1) The top clearance of the base was a problem. It was about .002 high on each corner when i printed it. Hard to know why, but the machine base had been worked on ( more like beat on). So I just wasn't confident that it was a good reference point any longer. That made me decide to use the vertical ways instead as my reference point.
2) The square is off, but I'm factoring that into the measurements.
3) Yes, I first scraped the flat ways on the ram using a surface plate to get them flat. Had a good reference surface on the top on the ram that allowed me to scrape the ways to be on the the same plane ( not sure thats the right term)

 

[Richard King 2]

I hate to write as I am wondering a few things while reading your last post. I see you have it sitting on a piece of sheet steel? and bolted on one side.? You need to set the base on the factory feet and pull it down evenly. Also why use a square that you know is off? You can buy cheap Shars granite or blade squares. How or where did you have the ram sitting when you scraped it and you say you used a plate to scrape it. Please show us the plate you used. You say you left it .0005 incline? That sounds to small as the Schlesinger book says .0008" in 12". I would not use Turcite on a shaper as it compresses and if your not familiar with the PSI needed to make it make it function properly I would use grade linen phenolic. Also I on;y use the Loctite 380 super glue in emergencies as it drys so fast and when your applying wear strips you want time to do it right. If cost is the issue, buy some J B weld 24 hour epoxy. I use it in a pinch and it works good.

It only hitting on the ends 2" makes me think the ram is not scraped in the correct alignment was not sitting on 30% or Airy 25% The ram on the shaper Keith was scraping on twisted just sitting upside down on a work bench. I showed them how to put the ram on 3 points, It had a .008" twist in it I believe just setting on the table and was less then .0015 after we put it on 3 points. Pic's show we have ram on a oak V block on one end making 2 points and on the other end we use whats called the "bridge" where we run a board under the stroke adjustment slot and a triangle file under the wood block to get the single point. We tried to support it a 30% or Airy points to keep the ram flat to it's own weight. The other blocks were stabilizers and only pressed against the ram sides.

So many people think scraping is easy and it is if you have had someone show you how who knows what is going on. Even using the Conneely book isn't good enough if you don't use 3 points. Hope I can help you fix your machine if it's not to late.

 

[Janderso]

Richard,
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us.
I know many of us have taken your classes and follow your posts with interest.
Stay healthy and never stop teaching

 

[Richard King 2]

Thanks Jeff. I had a good time teaching you while you scraped that angle block. When "you got it" reaction was worth the wait. I hate to come off as a old crab or know it all. I just hate to see scraping shown by rookies and other rookies seeing it and believing. Like I said, would you let someone do brain surgery on you after reading 1 book, watching some you tube shows taught by a guy who probably took a 1 week class ? Rebuilding and scraping is a "Skilled trade" and we figure it takes 4 years working under a Journeyman. I encourage these rebuilding threads and I have ****** off a few people when I try to teach the right way inside their threads. I do it for the betterment of the trade, not to **** someone off. I see Pete has a home made copy of the scraper Keith Rucker copied that he got from me. Pete I see your in New York. I will be teaching a class in Oswego in May. If your still working on it then. I'm inviting you to attend the class, no charge, Rich