Shapers, what happened?

[Projectnater]

Is it me or has the price of smaller shapers (7" to 10") gone sky high? A couple of years ago shapers were almost free, now they cost as much as an older bridgeport mill!

 

[Janderso]

Is it me or has the price of smaller shapers (7" to 10") gone sky high? A couple of years ago shapers were almost free, now they cost as much as an older bridgeport mill!

Not you. Somewhere along the line, shapers became worth their weight in gold.

 

[Projectnater]

I guess it's the old "whatever is old is cool again" concept, too bad that doesn't apply to me yet.

 

[Braeden P]

Abom 79

 

[GeneT45]

Seems to me that happened quite a long time ago, at least with the little guys. Big shapers still go for scrap price most of the time unless they're in excellent condition or have special features.

The question is: where did all the shaper vises go? I just don't see them...

GsT

 

[projectnut]

I'm not sure what happened, but I do agree that the prices have gone nuts over the last 10 years or so. Around 2012 I was looking for a small shaper. At the time the Badger Army Ammunition Depot was closing and many of the remaining tools and equipment were going to be auctioned off. A friend was looking for some tooling and decided to attend.

One of the first items up for bid was a 7" AMMCO shaper. After several tries with no bids the auctioneer set it off to the side. Later they bundled it with a surface plate, dividing head, and some mill tooling. When it came back up for bid the whole lot sold to my friend for $175.00. When he got home he let me know what he'd bought and asked if I was still interested. I said yes and purchased the shaper for the amount he paid for the entire lot. I thought it was more than a fair price for the machine and the delivery.

The last time I looked the ones listed on eBay & Craigslist had asking prices of over $1,500.00. I have no idea if they got anywhere near that price, but I certainly wouldn't consider paying that much. Larger shapers also seem to be more popular again. A few years ago, I was offered a 16" Leuter and Gueis for $250.00. I see similar machines now going for well over $2,000.00.

Here's a couple pictures of my 7" AMMCO complete with the OD green paint and military property tag.

 

[great white]

Do we think it's that they've become more popular, or that more people are trying to sell old stuff or high prices?

I tend to think it's more people trying to make more money off something they think is valuable becuase it's "old" and it's "industrial"...

 

[projectnut]

I think it's a combination of both. While I haven't seen any shapers at the local used equipment dealers, I have certainly seen prices go up in the last couple years. When the pandemic came along a lot of hobbyists started looking for machinery and tooling to outfit their shops. The higher demand alerted the sellers to the fact that they could ask higher prices.

Case in point are horizontal bandsaws. Saws that were going for $500.00 a few years ago now have asking prices north of $2,000.00.

 

[great white]

I think it's a combination of both. While I haven't seen any shapers at the local used equipment dealers, I have certainly seen prices go up in the last couple years. When the pandemic came along a lot of hobbyists started looking for machinery and tooling to outfit their shops. The higher demand alerted the sellers to the fact that they could ask higher prices.

Case in point are horizontal bandsaws. Saws that were going for $500.00 a few years ago now have asking prices north of $2,000.00.

You're probably right with the pandemic/hobby theory.

Case in point; I collect and build slot car tracks as a kind of a time waster/side hobby:

That's the current one in progress. Sure, its “old tech”, but I’m old soooo…..

Before the pandemic you could pick up cars and bits super cheap. No one wanted little plastic cars that rattled around a fixed track when you can play a video game of laguna seca or silverstone on your tv.

Then, pandemic hit and prices went through the roof. Cars that you could pick up easily for 10-20 bucks were suddenly selling somewhere near 100 bucks! Gawd help you if you wanted something hard to find that you had in your youth and wanted again.

I guess people were locked up so long that everything old is new again and deep pockets probably ruined a lot of hobbies for a lot of people.

Seems machining as a hobby might have been just one more casualty…..

 

[ErichKeane]

Yep, there were quite a few of the Youtubers who caught onto old shapers roughly the same time (Abom79, Stephen ?Gotswinger?, ThisOldTony, and a few others) that I think inspired a bunch of hobby machinists. As one such victim, I'll tell it from my perspective:

Owning a shaper is a tempting proposition after watching all of those youtubers. They are incredibly versatile, use cheap cutting tools, don't make a big mess, and are incredibly fun/mesmerizing to watch work. For those of us who make chips JUST for fun, the "you can make anything but a profit" is REALLY tempting: NONE of my machines make a profit, but the ability to make anything with them is tempting!

Additionally, these shapers are available in a bench-top size (7") and are quite capable. They don't require much space at all, are pretty quiet, and again, a lot of fun! So anyone with a really small shop can probably fit one and increase the capability of their shop a whole bunch.

From my perspective: I needed a little bit of an oddball keyway in a gear for a project (some antique european pasta maker for a friend). The chinesium broaches weren't available in the size, plus I didn't have an arbor press. The only broach I could find of the size was nearly $1000, let alone needing to make the bushing AND buy an arbor press big enough.

A 7" Atlas shaper showed up on craigslist for ~$1000, so I bought that instead. Instead of blowing $1000 on a broach that would get used 1x, I improved the capability of my shop! The shaper was a champ for the project, and got it done in an hour. I was over the moon!

After that, I kept finding great projects for the shaper, it was really useful! Everything from facing stock while I did something else, to cutting odd angles, to getting through casting shmoo, that little 7" shaper did a ton of work for my shop.

In the end, I just kept running into projects that it COULDN'T do, not because it was a shaper, but because it was a small shaper. The 'height' above the table it could cut wasn't big enough for a project, and it wasn't wide enough/etc. SO I found a 28" shaper on offerup, and brought that home as well! I ended up trading the Atlas shaper to someone who got $2500 for it afterwards.

I STILL love my 28" shaper, but the little 7" Atlas was way more capable than something its size should be. I've used a small benchtop mill of roughly the size, and a 7" lathe about that size: Neither was as good at its job as the little 7" shaper was.

So in the end: Everything that made a shaper an indispensable part of early 1900s machine shops, still applies to a home shop. Everything that made a shaper a waste of space in the 1960s doesn't matter to me/doesn't apply in a home shop. And I think that is math that is common to many who own one.