[Newbie] Spindle Taper Grinding-?diy

[brino]

Question: how would I go about finding a reamer for the VN #C (Hardinge 5V) taper to use by hand if I need to clean it up?

Vanderline, I did not realize that we were talking about a somewhat less common taper.

I read somewhere recently (likely on this site!) about someone not being able to find a tapered reamer for a decent price. His solution was to find another tool with the same taper (perhaps a drill bit?) and make a cutting edges on the tapered shank and use that as his deburring tool.

Note the shank of a drill may be left softer than the cutting edge...I don't recall if some attempt was made to harden it.

This is meant more as a last-ditch method to get a tapered reamer, and really for minor deburring it could be enough.

However it sounds like investigating that pin is at the top of the list.
Please let us know how it goes.

-brino

 

[Bob V]

Daryl and brino, ( and all those who have been helping with this):

I tapped out the key and it was badly mushroomed so that part of the key was clearly acting as a wedge instead of a key--pushing on the edges of the spindle adjacent to the keyway-- not in the keyway as it should be. I replaced the key with one of the spares the previous owner gave me and most of the runout has disappeared. However, I have found that about half of the collets (I have about 20 sizes) have damaged keyways from being pulled into the spindle by the drawbar when the key was not in the keyway- or the key was simply mushroomed and then damaged the keyways in the collets and toolholder. If these collets and tools were pulled into the spindle-- they would immediately mushroom the new key-- because the keyways in the collets are damaged. You could replace these keys forever and the problem will keep recurring until all the keyways are fixed.

The good news is that I think I've found the problem. I felt the inside of the spindle taper and it feels very smooth-- I don't think the spindle taper is burred or otherwise damaged.
I think my first milling project will be to mill out the keyways on all the collets and tool holders--

Thanks to everyone for all the help.

--By the way-- what is considered acceptable runout of a spindle when measured down at the tool shank?
Bob

 

[brino]

I replaced the key ....... and most of the runout has disappeared.

Excellent news, thanks for letting us know.

I think my first milling project will be to mill out the keyways on all the collets and tool holders

Good thing you got a milling machine then, or you wouldn't be able to fix them yourself.......

-brino

 

[JimDawson]

--By the way-- what is considered acceptable runout of a spindle when measured down at the tool shank?

What ever you can live with But I would think 0.0005 TIR or so would be acceptable.

 

[Uglydog]

Good news indeed.

Milling is good.
Never under estimate the value of a hand file.
toag and bigearl keep telling me that the simple solution is the best solution 80% of the time.


Daryl
MN

 

[Bob V]

Good news indeed.

Milling is good.
Never under estimate the value of a hand file.
toag and bigearl keep telling me that the simple solution is the best solution 80% of the time.


Daryl
MN

Daryl, and others,
Are you saying that I could use a hand file inside the spindle arbor to get rid of the burrs? You can't see what you're doing up in the spindle-- obviously this would have to be done by feel-right?

Question: The tapered arbors that go into the toolholders that I'm trying to de-burr have a Morse 2 taper. The rare taper in the machine is inside the spindle (van norman 5V) is smooth. So I'm trying to clean up Morse 2 female tapers inside toolhlders.
The arbors that go into these tool holders are VERY smooth/shiny. Does this mean the finish inside the tool holder has to have a similar mirror-type finish to hold the tool correctly?

 

[Uglydog]

I apologize if I was unclear.
I am certainly no expert.
While I really like my machine tools, sometimes it's easier and more accurate to use a file or stone.
I was referring to the collets. It was my understanding that you had some with messed up keyways.
I'd be cautious about using a morse taper reamer in a VN spindle. If you have specific burs you are attacking I'd try the stone.
As someone has mentioned above a file may be a difficult.

The mirror finish is all about a perfect fit.

Daryl
MN

 

[JimDawson]

Daryl, and others,
Are you saying that I could use a hand file inside the spindle arbor to get rid of the burrs? You can't see what you're doing up in the spindle-- obviously this would have to be done by feel-right?

Question: The tapered arbors that go into the toolholders that I'm trying to de-burr have a Morse 2 taper. The rare taper in the machine is inside the spindle (van norman 5V) is smooth. So I'm trying to clean up Morse 2 female tapers inside toolhlders.
The arbors that go into these tool holders are VERY smooth/shiny. Does this mean the finish inside the tool holder has to have a similar mirror-type finish to hold the tool correctly?

Hand filing could be done by feel, a mirror and a flashlight works well, as does an inspection camera.

The smoother the surface, the better the hold.
.
.

 

[chevydyl]

I don't know your experience, but I will say that grinding a spindle taper should not be taken lightly, and should in no way be performed by a novice machinist, you could ruin the spindle at worst, but if your not dead nuts, and I mean right on the money .0000 as far as centerline goes you can actually grind a bowtie into the spindle bore, making the tools not engage the taper correctly and making a very high runout. More than likely if a novice we're to grind the spindle it would be worse than when started, all that being said, if your good enough and have the proper equipment to do so then go for it, in reading your posts I'm glad to see that it sounds like the 5vn taper is clean, have you tried running a dti inside the spindle taper?

 

[Bob V]

I don't know your experience, but I will say that grinding a spindle taper should not be taken lightly, and should in no way be performed by a novice machinist, you could ruin the spindle at worst, but if your not dead nuts, and I mean right on the money .0000 as far as centerline goes you can actually grind a bowtie into the spindle bore, making the tools not engage the taper correctly and making a very high runout. More than likely if a novice we're to grind the spindle it would be worse than when started, all that being said, if your good enough and have the proper equipment to do so then go for it, in reading your posts I'm glad to see that it sounds like the 5vn taper is clean, have you tried running a dti inside the spindle taper?

Hi Chevydly,
Guess I wasn't clear-sorry--
The internal 5V spindle taper seems very smooth and just fine.
The internal tapers that I need to clean up (or have a pro clean up) are the tapers inside toolholder-- several of these are for Morse 2 taper tool or arbors. Also the internals of many of my collets are burred and need to be cleaned up.
I understand and appreciate that I could ruin the toolholder or collets, and DON'T want to do that.
--So what do you suggest-- are there professional taper grinders who could do this for me?