Stand for Tormach 440

[cndingus]

Hi all, I just purchased a Tormach 440! I am trying to figure out what to put it on. I did not order the Tormach stand because I am not planning on using their chip tray/enclosure ($$$). I will not be using flood coolant so I would prefer to set the Tormach on a table top and then build an aluminum enclosure around it. Preferred dimensions would be 48"-60"x30"x30". I am considering the following options:

McMaster 7ga extra heavy duty workbench (~$900 delivered to me)
Heavy/professional duty tool chest (16ga) with casters removed (~$1000)
DIY wood workbench (few hundred bucks)

I am really a fan of the tool chest because of the additional functionality, but I'm not sure about the rigidity of the frame. They do come with thick maple tops on them. The McMaster table is obviously very heavy duty, with a 7ga steel top as well, but over the 28"x48" area, I'm not sure how much better it would be in terms of rigidity vs the tool chest. I can make a workbench myself but I'm not sure if it would end up as rigid or not. I don't have experience with a quality tool chest or the McMaster product to know the difference.

Any recommendations here? My garage is quite space constrained so things that serve multiple purposes are quite valuable to me! I'm not trying to machine things with 0.001" all the time, so I don't think I need a crazy rigid foundation for the machine, but I also don't want to set it up on something that will prevent it from operating well at all. Lots of videos I see on YT people have them on DIY benches or small steel machine stands, hence the inspiration for my choices above.

Cheers!

 

[GunsOfNavarone]

I have the 440 and I will say I love the stand.....so solid and adjustable. That being said, when I'n running around the top SFPM, there is enough inertia that you really need something ridgid. It's amazing what seems rigid until you get many 100's of pounds on it that moves on its own accord.
I have issues with my PM727m and my grizzly G0602. The PM is on a PM stand, the Grizzly is on a very large/heavy tool chest. (300#)
I don't want to steer you wrong, just give ample recommendation to get it 2x's sturdier than you think you need!

 

[Advil]

I think you can get away with something solid and a lot less expensive for a 440.

Here's my take on your situation as a long time 770 owner:

So since your goal is to do it without the Tormach stand $1000 + chip tray $600 at $1600 total I'd say a very heavy duty DIY wood workbench and maybe or maybe not put a metal plate on top of the wood surface that you bolt the machine all the way through. (440 may not need it, I've seen people put a 770 directly on a very stout home made wood bench).

If you make it stout enough, you should be able to have enough rigidity for whatever the 440 could need and also have room under it to put a cheap rolling tool cabinet. Then you have the best of both worlds.

But if you get anywhere near the $1600 of the actual machine stand and chip tray, you'll kick yourself hard later for not having just gotten the "real thing" for that much money.

I'd say build the ultra stout bench and put a HF tool cabinet under it especially since you already have the machine. Don't overthink this. You'll need the money for tooling up that 440 FAR more than you need some $1000 McMaster steel bench.

I got my 770 years ago and the chip tray/stand at the time was a total no brainer for it. Prices have gone up some since then. But I have seen a 770 mounted to a stout wood bench. Look up Craigs Machine Shop on youtube and see some of his early videos around 4 years ago and you can see his 770 on his homemade wood bench. Go at least that heavy for the legs and table and you'll be fine. He machines steel parts on that setup.

Good luck.

 

[cndingus]

Thanks for the input guys. Are there ever issues with humidity/temperature change affecting the wood? I was wondering if that ever threw the machine out of alignment.

Plywood has gotten so expensive these days that the McMaster table is surprisingly not THAT much more money than building DIY with quality lumber! Now I do have some scrap in the garage but still.

If I made it out of wood I’d use 4x4s for legs, either brace the legs or skin the legs with plywood, and heavily brace the top. All 3/4 plywood. Fortunately my old man is a skilled woodworker so I can employ him for this task since I’m not amazing with woodwork. My only concern with the wood stand is the wood moving around with weather changes…

 

[cndingus]

BTW, I ordered the following accessories:

5x ER20 TTS holders
Power drawbar
Fog buster (I know I can DIY this but opted not to)
SMW fixture plate
4” vise
4th axis wiring kit (gonna try to DIY with my own harmonic drive)
Superfly
0.75” shear hog
Diamond drag engraver
Z axis setter (analog dial)
Bunch of ER20 collets
Passive probe
4 jaw chuck (I plan to use this with my DIY 4th axis)

I also ordered some lakeshore carbide tooling.

I tried to follow the recommendations of NYC CNC — they have data for the Tormach for all of the above tools so I figure it’ll give me a great starting place

 

[Advil]

As I began my CNC machining journey NYC CNC was a big help early on. Their feed and speed spreadsheets and Fusion tool catalogs along with his idea of using the templates in Fusion 360 to easily set up repeatable CAM operations will give you a good solid foundation to make parts with less flailing around figuring things out the hard way.

As for wood swelling/moving and alignment... well... yes possibly an issue. But first identify what level of precision you actually need for what you want to make. If you are trying to hold tenths and be out less than .001" over 12" of travel then your best chances of that happening will be bolting to something metal.

But that was why I said maybe or maybe not bolt to a steel plate. It depends on what you are shooting for. The way you tweak the bed level on a 440 / 770 / 1100 is based on how tight each of the mill's bolts are to the stand, and also shimming under those bolts if needed. The tightness of each bolt as well as how much shim is under each one will affect the twist on the machine table. Attaching the machine to something steel will obviously help increase the odds of highly precise adjustments and thin shims holding as intended over time.

Maybe a better piece of advice is going to be just get it bolted down to ANY workbench you have that's solid enough to use it, and see what you need then build/buy to suit. That's the great thing about the 440, it's just not that big of a deal to move around.

 

[cndingus]

I agree, I think that's the conclusion I came to as well. I'm just going to build a really sturdy workbench and go from there. I have most of the wood as scrap anyways so it shouldn't cost as much as I was originally thinking. Can't go wrong! I can't wait to get started with it. Still no tracking number but I'm chomping at the bit for it lol!

 

[cndingus]

Hey all, writing back to update any other prospective Tormach 440 buyers. My dad (great woodworker) and I built a stout stand for the machine. The top measures 60”x30”, with the machine residing in a 48”x30” enclosure on one side (the remaining 12”x30” space is used for a monitor and keyboard). The stand was made with 2 3/4” sheets of Baltic birch plywood laminated together and finished with poly. The frame of the stand is a standard 2x4 frame with 4x4 legs, with additional 2x4 supports running under the machine’a bolt areas. The machine is lag screwed into these holes. The back of the legs are skinned with 1/2” plywood to help with racking.

So far with my test cuts rigidity doesn’t seem to be an issue and it is ROCK solid.

I bought an Openbuilds enclosure kit and HATED it, so much so that when I put it together I bailed halfway through and just taped cardboard panels to the sides as a stop gap until I build my own enclosure. That kit is a joke — far too weak, the doors can barely hold themselves up, not nearly enough gusseting to keep the enclosure solid while you operate the doors. I don’t recommend it to anyone and it was a huge PITA to put together — I could’ve made a much better wood enclosure with just a few more hours of effort.

Anyways, I’m loving the machine so far but i just got pretty sick so haven’t really been able to put all my energy into it.

The fog buster and power drawbar setup took a few hours, but wasn’t too bad. The Tormach videos were very helpful. Most of the complexity came from finding out that the air lines used are not standard size (ugh) and just figuring out where to mount stuff and how to route cables.

The superfly cutter is AMAZING, so is all the SMW hardware I bought.

The machine did not require a shim for tram — x,y deviation was almost immeasurable on my 0.0005” indicator. I found that impressive!

I am noticing a solid amount of backlash when using the jog shuttle — if I jog the machine in x y or z in one direction, then use the center wheel to step it in 0.001” increments in the other direction, it requires several commands before actually jogging. The DRO shows movement, but nothing from the machine (doesn’t even sound like the motors are doing anything).

I was able to reliably set my tool heights; I would’ve figured backlash would make this step impossible… so maybe this is how it is? If anyone could chime in on that I’d appreciate it.

So far I’m satisfied!

 

[Advil]

Yes a dovetail way machine like a Tormach will have around .0007 to .0015 backlash. You can try to tune it down as far as you dare but it takes a feel to get it right. Too much and you get sticking and lost steps as well as premature wear because the gibs are too tight and the oil can't get between the surfaces. It'll take you a long time before you get good enough to notice this when making parts. Accuracy isn't the same as repeatability. As long as the machine is making the same moves you can repeat to .0002.

Z tool height measurement isn't an issue because tool length is always measured while lowering the head and the head weighs a ton and is always biased down against whatever slop might be in the screw. Which tends to keep Z VERY repeatable compared to X and Y.