Surface Grinder opinions? 12” or 18”?

[Mill Lee farm]

Hello everyone,
I’m asking for some input on surface grinder choices. Has anyone gotten a nice 6x12 (I’m considering a mint Harig super 612) only to regret it later due to small size compared to a 6”x18”?

6x12 is much more common and the relatively smaller weight/footprint has some advantage… but I already need 6”x17.5” to regrind my Kurt vise…

I also wonder if hydraulic auto is important. I’ve seen some posts from people who got tired of their manual after a while and wished they could walk away and give their arms a rest while doing something else… lol

Interested in the hive minds experience!

 

[jwmelvin]

I’d strongly recommend automatic feeds. My 618 has auto long and cross (no down feed) and it’s a world of difference from my smaller ~5x10.

 

[mmcmdl]

LOL . You've both been to the house of horrors , but yes , the autos are great . Those of us getting up in age can appreciate the auto feeds .

 

[buffdan]

I suppose it depends on your usage.. Sounds like 6x18 is what you are leaning towards. How often do you expect to do many long projects, etc, etc.
I have a Mitsui 6x12, which has 8x15 table movement, so I can squeak out a little more that the 6x12, which is the chuck size.
I don't use mine too often, so manual is not issue for me, though some folks have put power feed on their manual SGs
There have been a few times I would like to have had longer table movement.. (not many)
So, I think 6x18 in long run better, but if you need power table movement, with some effort you could add power feed.
Mr Pragmatic Lee as an example added on power feed to his SG

 

[Mill Lee farm]

Good feedback @jwmelvin
Although 5x10 is definitely small, do you find yourself using more than 12”? Would you have been ok with a 6x12 hydraulic?

Do you just like the ease of use of the automatic? Or does it result in better finish?
Or literally just easier to use if you’re only worrying about downfeed?

 

[Mill Lee farm]

No horrors at your place @mmcmdl! Only lots to explore!!!

Didn’t you say you knew a shop that wants to get rid of a Brown & Sharpe? I thought you had said something about that…

@buffdan I was actually thinking about a possible conversion of a manual. With servos/steppers so accessible and figured out now, it seems like it wouldn’t be too bad to rig something up to the hand wheels with some ELS style speed control….
It would be a project for sure…

 

[Dabbler]

I have a brown and Sharpe 6X12, and I'm fine with it. Manual feeds.

 

[benmychree]

I would not own a manual grinding machine, currently have a B&S Micromaster 6 x18 with hydraulic feeds. for some grinding jobs such as punch and die grinding, manual can be faster due to the hydraulic table feed not being able to short stroke automatically.

 

[Chipper5783]

I’ve a had a 618 manual machine for about 5 years. It is a game changer compared to no SG at all! I’ve done a fair amount of grinding with it. It has met the majority of my needs/wants as far as grinding. I’m not really troubled by having to crank the handle (I’ve done a few multi hour stretches), it get tiring, but it does a good job - not really much different than any other task.

A bigger machine? That is a black hole. Certainly the 12” travel can get eaten up pretty quickly. If you don think you’ll need the longer travel, obviously 12” is fine. You have a larger task in mind, so it seems an 18” travel is your minimum! A 618 is still a pretty small machine.

I get machines on “opportunity” - well a larger surface grinder came up, reasonable price. A TOS 9” x 28” travel, 3 axis auto. It is a lot more machine (5x the weight of the Ingar 618). I have it cleaned up and running, but no sparks yet - still servicing and cleaning so can’t comment on operability. I have not reason to think that it won’t be great.

Really depends on your needs. In a maintenance, non production environment, the manual machine can be a good fit (they still sell new ones and some of the YouTube pros are using manual machines. Obviously if many hours per week are anticipated, automation is a huge benefit.

 

[Mill Lee farm]

As I am an absolute newbie and will only be spending as much time in the shop as I can carve out of the rest of my schedule… I definitely don’t consider myself ‘production’!

However… the market for surface grinders is all over the place price wise. Assuming a ‘good’ condition machine can be be found for a similar or slightly more $$$ range… it might be better to wait around for the right ‘deal’.

But again…. Weight, rigging differences, and floorspace are not to be ignored.

I mean, I saw this DoAll manual for about $1000 where they have a quarter sitting on it while running. Is this really a good test?

Obviously the stone NEEDS to be balanced… but will a ‘worn’ spindle vibrate? (Showing my inexperience with grinders here!)