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“The Standard” high speed power hacksaw

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Flightmap

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#1
I recently acquired a power hacksaw; one that I didn’t need, and too old. But, I was intrigued by its design so I thought I would look into it further. This saw was manufactured by T & S Engineering of Pasadena, CA. I tried all the search engines I know but no joy on any links or information - let alone the coveted operating manual.

I’ll start with some pics and the information I have: it may end up as two posts.

87ED13AC-CF4F-4EF6-B999-820603382F78.jpeg

This is the name plate on the saw base.
F7BDB526-6D76-440B-8910-C85A94583196.jpeg

This is part of the ratcheting system that is behind the walking beam attachment. The dovetails are on the right and left
0EBA47EC-E0E4-4029-9BDC-151F855BE00D.jpeg

The walking beam is on the right (these pics are before cleanup), the screw in the foreground holds the top rail that the rope bearings (2) ride on. The “mast” that the dovetails ride on is on the left . There are 4 Allen head screws (the bottom one is broken off) that adjust the gib against the dove tail above
408C9540-DED9-4014-B184-F27D25C45A4B.jpeg

This is the complete ratcheting system that allows the saw to “fall” as the saw cuts

B083F687-B066-45B1-82F5-D675F564364F.jpeg

Another view of the ratcheting system with the gib for the dovetail at upper right that is made of brass

AA98E1C5-734C-490E-86A0-C5424ECD5A80.jpeg

The back of the saw after cleanup. The vise is part of the pan casting. The yellow clamp is canted to clear the circular handle from the saw frame (also yellow) AND creates a lever against the material being sawn. The orange topped handle is the cam and lever that raises and lowers the saw on the mast.

The mast is in blue

23B95834-1004-42F7-BCBC-3E117EEA745C.jpeg

This is the front of the saw with the solid brass walking beam in the middle of the pic, and the eccentric lever (orange cam) which uses a bicycle chain to connect the ratchet housing (pictured above) to the cam. Lift the lever and swing it over the top of the cam, and the whole saw is lifted to allow the material to be placed in the vise.
8F6B74CC-5133-4B20-9BF0-5171A64709DF.jpeg

This is the saw lifted to the top. the eccentric handle is now "over the top" and the saw is fully lifted . I am waiting on a saw blade from Daily Saw to mount on the frame (an odd size of 15.6" hole to hole) which is fixed in length.
4249E679-3E9F-4860-882E-6198403FC0F7.jpeg

This shows the saw frame with the rope pulley bearings riding on the the round shaft. There are two sets of bearings and two rails, one on top and one underneath the frame. This locks the frame to the mast and gives it the sliding motion in a straight line. With the amount of work this saw has seen, the bearings, rails ( or shaft), and dovetails all seem to be in great shape.

What is not obvious is the mast SWIVILS about 60 degrees in one direction. This is not an easy feature to apply so those of you with an ELLIS band saw can rest easy. What is also not shown is the cooling oil distribution system ( the motor and pump below the saw drive motor). The pan is cast iron with a sump underneath the mast (this allows the mast bolts room to swing). All the collent is collected in this sump and then pumped back out to the flex tube shown two pictures above.

If anyone has any information on this saw, please let me know. I probably wont keep it, but i still would like to know more about it. I have never seen a saw like this one, and on top of it, it is very well designed, unique to me.
 

markba633csi

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#2
That is one cool little saw. I'm usually not a big fan of those contraptions- a bit too prehistoric for my taste- but that one is pretty darn nifty
A solid brass driving arm- wow. And the ratcheting mechanism is clever too, much more elegant than a sliding weight
Mark
 
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francist

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#3
Yup, that is one unique machine alright. Thanks for putting up the photos. Still trying to get my head around what trips and controls the fall rate, but I can see how the slide and most of the other bits function. I'm thinking quite a good sized capacity. Wonder why the odd blade length? Seems like if you're making a saw from scratch you'd pick a blade length that was a little easier to come by. Is that lever and thumbscrew on the frame part of the tensioner?

You've piqued my curiosity about trying to find out more about it, will have to do some poking around. Maybe get lucky. I'm also thinking this would be a perfect opportunity to post a short 2 or 3 minute video of it running here on our Member Video section. It's pretty easy to, not much harder than posting static photos. Might be the only time anyone ever sees one again.

Will let you know if I find anything in the way of company or machine information.

-frank
 

Flightmap

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Yup, that is one unique machine alright. Thanks for putting up the photos. Still trying to get my head around what trips and controls the fall rate, but I can see how the slide and most of the other bits function. I'm thinking quite a good sized capacity. Wonder why the odd blade length? Seems like if you're making a saw from scratch you'd pick a blade length that was a little easier to come by. Is that lever and thumbscrew on the frame part of the tensioner?

You've piqued my curiosity about trying to find out more about it, will have to do some poking around. Maybe get lucky. I'm also thinking this would be a perfect opportunity to post a short 2 or 3 minute video of it running here on our Member Video section. It's pretty easy to, not much harder than posting static photos. Might be the only time anyone ever sees one again.

Will let you know if I find anything in the way of company or machine information.

-frank
 

Flightmap

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#5
I haven’t figured out why the tensioner is there. The frame appears to be fixed, perhaps there was an adapter that went with the machine to accommodate shorter blades?
 

francist

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#6
Perhaps. On my Keller, there are two secondary pieces that actually link to the blade. Then those two pieces tie to the frame. With the front one, it can slide forward and aft by way of the tensioner thereby either tightening the blade or, by putting the pin in one of the other holes, it can accommodate a slightly different blade length. I'm not explaining that nicely, here's a picture:
image.jpeg

image.jpeg


Wonder if yours had something similar?

-frank
 

Silverbullet

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#7
It does have the compound leverage for an adjustable blade tension . I bet there's a part missing or two on the blade mount. I do hope you show us it in operation. It's a very neat operation for sure. Good find and save.
 

Flightmap

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Perhaps. On my Keller, there are two secondary pieces that actually link to the blade. Then those two pieces tie to the frame. With the front one, it can slide forward and aft by way of the tensioner thereby either tightening the blade or, by putting the pin in one of the other holes, it can accommodate a slightly different blade length. I'm not explaining that nicely, here's a picture:
View attachment 271621
View attachment 271622

Wonder if yours had something similar?

-frank
Yes, possibly. While yours is centered in the saw frame, mine would be off center and have to be clamped (which mine has)
BTW very nice saw!
 
F

f350ca

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#9
Nice saw !
Interesting that they would use brass for the connecting rod, my Peerless shaper uses a very similar brass rod to drive the ratchet on the table. Even back then brass had to be expensive. Wonder if it was used as a weak link to avoid breaking more intricate parts in a crash?
And yes please post a video of it running.

Greg
 

Silverbullet

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#10
Back then steel was higher price the brass I think . Casting it was about the same as cast iron if I've read my history right. Even copper was cheap it's the demand which pushed prices through the roof. Now most metals are commodities used like cash on the stock exchange. Not many years ago I was buying brass rods 10-12' long for $20.00 hex and rounds. Couple years ago I wanted to buy some 3" diameter brass my supplier said he would send a quote . I about crapped when I saw the cost it was over $400. For 3' not even a full length . Needless to say I didn't get any.
 

benmychree

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#11
One must realize that there is a difference between BRASS and BRONZE; bronze is a copper/tin alloy and is a good deal stronger than brass, a copper/ zinc alloy, and can be a good deal stronger than cast iron, especially in tension. the only thing better for that connecting rod would have been steel.
 

Flightmap

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#12
As requested, I am attaching a video showing “The Standard” saw in operation. The metal being cut is a 5” round that is a steel alloy of cromium/vanadium ( I think). The adjustment for rate of decent and strokes per minute may need further attention, but the saw is cutting! The round was originally about 6ft long and just too heavy to manipulate, plus a 10” long piece would be suffice to for 90% of my projects, so I cut the 6’ stick into three pieces.

The first video is the saw in action. The second video was a poor attempt to show the eccentric bearing moving the fulcrum against the lever (shown in the picture of a previous post). The bearing moves the piece with the notch, up and down, while the piece that has a point on it pinches at the bottom of the movement and releases the notched piece at the top allowing the fall for the next stroke. At least that is how I think it operates. I would really appreciate Anyone with information on this saw to let me know any details.
 

francist

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As requested, I am attaching a video showing “The Standard” saw in operation. The metal being cut is a 5” round that is a steel alloy of cromium/vanadium ( I think). The adjustment for rate of decent and strokes per minute may need further attention, but the saw is cutting! The round was originally about 6ft long and just too heavy to manipulate, plus a 10” long piece would be suffice to for 90% of my projects, so I cut the 6’ stick into three pieces.
I think you forgot the video, I'm not seeing anything here.

-frank
 

Flightmap

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#14
I took a 51 second video but the server said it was too big. Posted another video ( 25 seconds) that looked like it went as an attachment: apparently not so. Suggestions? I’m not very knowledgeable in editing/manipulating videos...or pics for that matter.
 

francist

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#15
You could create a folder for yourself in the Member Videos section here -- it's in the tab up at the top called Video Library. Pretty easy to set up the folder (there's instructions to walk you through) and then once the folder is active you just drop the videos in there. It's pretty seamless, at least I had no troubles with it and I'm no special techie at all. As for the videos themselves, those durations shouldn't be a problem and there's no special editing required. I have a few up there and I just took them on my iPhone -- nothing special that I can see.

-frank
 

oskar

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#16
Thats an amazing tool, you must be so happy you choose to get it
 

Flightmap

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#17
Yes, the design is unique and in my experience, effective. I need to get it to some one who would like to use it ( I have my saw ). Thinking about donating it t9 a working museum?
 
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