Thoughts on new lathe purchase, PM1127, PM1228, or maybe Bolton CQ9332A

[AndySomogyi]

I'm looking at buying a new lathe. Have a pretty tight budget of around $3500 max. Requirements are

• metric threading!
• need to be able to move it solo, with a engine hoist, I don't have a truck, don't have forklift.
• prefer about a 12x24 size, I have minimal shop space.
• 1.5" spindle bore
• I work exclusively in metric, so I can get by with an imperial with a DRO, but at minimal, need metric threading.
• cam-lock spindle
• small enough to move solo and not take up a lot of space, but rigid enough for real work.
• precise enough to hold tight tolerances (0.01mm) like grinding cam journals (I have a tool post grinder).
• 11"/280mm swing over bed.

The Grizzly G4002 12x24 would have been perfect, but Grizzly discontinued it, and the G4003 12x36 takes up too much space.

I make prototype parts for engine swaps, so I make things like stub axles, pulleys, flywheels, that sort of thing, so I need a 11" swing minimum.

The PM1228 looks really nice, I really like the smart motor start/reverse, in that it has an electronic brake when you stop it.

If I get the PM1228, I'll mount it on a cast concrete stand, and level it dead-nuts on.

But I don't know, the PM1228 is pretty expensive, and it's about $200 more for the PM1236. But the problem is that's getting way too big for my tiny shop, and it would be next to impossible to move solo, with just my hoist.

Note, I'm willing to scrape / tweak the ways slightly to get dead-nuts precision, but I want a new machine with a freshly ground bed. But I really want a new lathe to make car parts, not looking for another used lathe project.

I'm thinking about either a Precession Matthews PM 1127, PM-1228VF-LB, or I'm thinking about this Bolton CQ9332A

The Bolton, it does look pretty rough, has a "made in India" kind of look to it.

Gear-Head Metal Lathe with Stand & Coolant | CQ9332A

Bolton Tools CQ9332A is a 12" x 30" Gear-Head Metal Lathe With Stand & Coolant System. Large Spindle Bore and Travels Make This a Formidable Metal Lathe

boltontool.com

 

[matthewsx]

I'm gonna say you're most likely to be satisfied with one of the PM machines, preferably one of the Taiwan built ones if you can stretch the budget but even the China built ones from PM are likely to be better than a Bolton. I just acquired a Bolton HA330 13x40 in a trade and the repair from being dropped is just the beginning of what I think will need to be done to get a modest amount of precision from it.

Here's a page from my manual on adjustment.



Note what they consider an acceptable error, 0.014"

I've worked on a few cars, as well as selling custom go kart engine parts and from my experience your size constraints will definitely be a limiting factor. I think you'll have to make a trade-off between accuracy and capacity and only you know what's more important to your customers. If it were me I think I'd choose a more accurate, smaller machine and farm out the larger pieces to a local job shop. I used to get some of my parts made this way and my supplier definitely did a better job for less money than I could have pulled off. Sometimes local machine shops will work with you too by doing a larger run of parts than you would want at one time and selling them to you in smaller lots.

Post up a link to what you're selling now and people may have a better idea of what your tooling requirements will be.

John

 

[AndySomogyi]

I've pretty much ruled the Bolton out, from what I gather, not a whole lot of difference between Bolton and importing one from a random Alibaba supplier. They look really rough.

I do all prototype, design work, and one-off items. Basically, if I have a car in, I work on the on a design as I'm fitting it, I don't do any sort of production. I guess you'd call what I do real-time prototyping. I think if I ever did production, I'd find a job-shop that does that sort of stuff, and make a print / tool lathes for them.

I'm gonna say you're most likely to be satisfied with one of the PM machines, preferably one of the Taiwan built ones if you can stretch the budget but even the China built ones from PM are likely to be better than a Bolton. I just acquired a Bolton HA330 13x40 in a trade and the repair from being dropped is just the beginning of what I think will need to be done to get a modest amount of precision from it.

Here's a page from my manual on adjustment.



Note what they consider an acceptable error, 0.014"

I've worked on a few cars, as well as selling custom go kart engine parts and from my experience your size constraints will definitely be a limiting factor. I think you'll have to make a trade-off between accuracy and capacity and only you know what's more important to your customers. If it were me I think I'd choose a more accurate, smaller machine and farm out the larger pieces to a local job shop. I used to get some of my parts made this way and my supplier definitely did a better job for less money than I could have pulled off. Sometimes local machine shops will work with you too by doing a larger run of parts than you would want at one time and selling them to you in smaller lots.

Post up a link to what you're selling now and people may have a better idea of what your tooling requirements will be.

John

 

[rzw0wr]

DO NOT buy Bolton anything. I made that mistake.
Bought a lathe from them.

They are part of Toolots.

NO. NONE customer help.
Parts take months to get IF you get them at all.,

Dale

 

[AndySomogyi]

Got it, thanks

I’ve pretty much ruled them (Bolton) out.

looks like with DRO Pros no longer selling lathes, it’s pretty much just PM.

DO NOT buy Bolton anything. I made that mistake.
Bought a lathe from them.

They are part of Toolots.

NO. NONE customer help.
Parts take months to get IF you get them at all.,

Dale

 

[Aukai]

I have the PM 1228, plan on changing out the belt early, the OEM China belt did not last on mine, and getting the exact belt aftermarket took some tries, but is still not exact. Matt could probably set one up for metric before shipping.

 

[matthewsx]

I think if it was between the 1127 and the 1228 I would go for the 1127 deciding factors being weight and AC motor.

But, especially if it was for my business and precision was important I would try to stretch the budget and available space for the 1236T. I don't know how much more difficult it will be to move 850lbs vs 575lbs but assuming you're not planning on doing it every week the extra mass would be an asset you would be happy to have.

I was super stoked when I put out the word I needed help moving my new lathe two forum members came to my aid and helped me get it done.

$1000 doesn't seem like very much money compared to what I'd expect to pay for an engine swap and an 11" is something I would find in my shop for the added capacity and accuracy. It sounds like you've been through enough challenges already and desire as trouble free an experience as possible. I haven't heard too many people complaining that the extra money for a Taiwan built machine wasn't worth it and Mainland China is just that, China.


Cheers,

John

 

[AndySomogyi]

I’ve been hugely impressed with a lot of the Chinese tooling I’ve bought (mostly from HHiP, Shars and Accusize), tolerance and finish are amazing.

But... also a lot of garbage, mostly sold at Harbor Freight and Menards.

I have some Vertex Taiwan tools, uniformly nice.

Indian: OMG that stuff is GARBAGE. Whenever I buy anything, first thing I check is that it’s NOT Indian.

I wish it were easier to find Polish tools, they are by far my favorite tools.

I think if it was between the 1127 and the 1228 I would go for the 1127 deciding factors being weight and AC motor.

But, especially if it was for my business and precision was important I would try to stretch the budget and available space for the 1236T. I don't know how much more difficult it will be to move 850lbs vs 575lbs but assuming you're not planning on doing it every week the extra mass would be an asset you would be happy to have.

I was super stoked when I put out the word I needed help moving my new lathe two forum members came to my aid and helped me get it done.

$1000 doesn't seem like very much money compared to what I'd expect to pay for an engine swap and an 11" is something I would find in my shop for the added capacity and accuracy. It sounds like you've been through enough challenges already and desire as trouble free an experience as possible. I haven't heard too many people complaining that the extra money for a Taiwan built machine wasn't worth it and Mainland China is just that, China.


Cheers,

John

 

[mikey]

Andy, I won't go into a lot of discussion here but, in my opinion, if you are buying a lathe to operate a business then you need a dependable precision machine and I would opt for the PM1236T at minimum. I could go on for quite some time about the differences between the two machines but if my business depended upon the lathe I had then I would not opt for a hobby-class machine like the 1228. If I did not have enough room for the 1236T then I would move stuff until I had room. If it was outside my budget then I would save or borrow the money for the 1236T. If moving it into place is hard, get help.

There are better lathes out there than the PM1236T for sure but not for that kind of money.