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Tool and cutter grinder build

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mark_f

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I had such a great morning, I thought I would tackle another detail. I noticed I forgot to make the spring loaded index pin for the tool holder. I should have left well enough alone. I put a 1 inch square piece of steel 2 inches long in the lathe, turned the end to fit the hole in the index shield plate. then drilled the holes for the pin. thing is looking good. I put it in the mill to cut it down and fancy it up a bit. All this took about an hour. I took photos but they got lost somewhere, I can't find them. Everything is perfect so far, then I put it in the drill press to drill the two mounting bolt holes and everything went to doo-doo from there. I drilled the holes from the bottom and when I turned it turned over, the holes were out of line. The part tipped a little in the vise while drilling and angled the one hole. Aside from a cosmetic problem it is fine , but I have to decide if that is acceptable. After looking at it , I thought, No one will even notice this ..... or will they ( the problem with a perfectionist is nothing is good enough so he can't get anything done because he keeps doing it over).

I next made the index pin and that came out fine (hard to mess that up). found some springs to fit and I am ready to go. I put it in place on the side of the tool holder and marked the 6-32 bolt holes. drilled them and began tapping them and then I heard it ...... SNAP!!!!!........... THE TAP BROKE OF IN MY TOOL HOLDER. I thought this thing is ruined and I will have to start over and make a new one.:cussing: ( that is the closest I came to crying in a long time).:bawling: I tried but the piece of tap was stuck hard in that aluminum tool holder body. I let it go for a while and then came back and took it to the shop, put it in my vise, found a 1/8" diameter carbide burr, took the burr and my hammer and BEAT THAT TAP THROUGH THE BODY. Amazingly there was minimal damage. I found out what happened.... I drilled the tap hole about 4 sizes too small ( all them little drill bits look the same). :headache: I tapped the holes (after re drilling) and amazingly I got a few good threads in that hole. I installed the index pin and it looks good, not perfect but good. I'm happy with it anyway
index pin1.jpg
index pin 2.jpg Unfortunately these are the only photos. All the photos I took making it are lost and I can't seem to find them. And before you say it , yes , it needs a knob on it ....Tomorrow.

I don't think there is anything left to do on the tool holder.
 
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jumps4

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Everything is really coming together and looking nice.
I know the frustration of small taps very well myself
brass seems to be the creature that always waiting to eat my taps.
You had made comments about not many people replying to your build
and I had issues with that a few times on threads I have. now I just check the views and likes.
in one of my threads there are over 6500 views and 117 posts mostly me posting.
sometimes I get the feeling I'm a fool just talking to myself but the views prove otherwise.
your helping a lot of people they just find it easier to click like than to post a message.
ever since the like button became an option the posts have dropped in all threads.
Keep up the good work Mark, It's a great build project.
I like the fact you show the problems you encounter and the results and for me that is what makes
a better build thread.
Steve
 

mark_f

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Everything is really coming together and looking nice.
I know the frustration of small taps very well myself
brass seems to be the creature that always waiting to eat my taps.
You had made comments about not many people replying to your build
and I had issues with that a few times on threads I have. now I just check the views and likes.
in one of my threads there are over 6500 views and 117 posts mostly me posting.
sometimes I get the feeling I'm a fool just talking to myself but the views prove otherwise.
your helping a lot of people they just find it easier to click like than to post a message.
ever since the like button became an option the posts have dropped in all threads.
Keep up the good work Mark, It's a great build project.
I like the fact you show the problems you encounter and the results and for me that is what makes
a better build thread.
Steve
I know what you mean , it is a lot of work making a large write up, but if it helps one person it is worth the effort and I know there are a couple of people watching this because they intend to build one. I hope I don't scare them out of it. Yes, it is a little complex and a big project, but so worth it when you save money because you can sharpen your own tools. I did learn building this grinder why it costs several thousand dollars to buy one new.

When I built my precision drill sharpener it was soooo worth it. I can sharpen a drill perfectly if I break one, it makes even new drills cut better and they don't "walk". I can't wait to see how this grinder performs.
 

Glenn_ca

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With almost 9000 views I am confident there are more than a couple of people following. Although I may never build such a unit myself I am learning a lot from the thread that can be applied to many other things. Your efforts are very much appreciated. Thanks.
 
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wrmiller

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I know what you mean , it is a lot of work making a large write up, but if it helps one person it is worth the effort and I know there are a couple of people watching this because they intend to build one. I hope I don't scare them out of it. Yes, it is a little complex and a big project, but so worth it when you save money because you can sharpen your own tools. I did learn building this grinder why it costs several thousand dollars to buy one new.

When I built my precision drill sharpener it was soooo worth it. I can sharpen a drill perfectly if I break one, it makes even new drills cut better and they don't "walk". I can't wait to see how this grinder performs.
Ok Mark, now you did it. I want to hear about this "precision drill sharpener" you built. :D
 

sgisler

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+1!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

rwm

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Me three..especially since I just bought a drill sharpener I don't like.
R
 

mark_f

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Ok Mark, now you did it. I want to hear about this "precision drill sharpener" you built. :D
Wow, That perked up some ears didn't it. If you go to "gadgetbuilder.com" You will see all about it. It was designed by John Moran, who I believe is a member here. It is a fantastic machine. It took me about 50 to 60 hours to build and I can't say enough good about this machine. Building it taught me a lot about drill bits I did not know. The biggest thing is , it sharpens a drill to have 4 facets instead of the conical grind we are so used to seeing. I always wondered what the difference is between a $8 dollar drill bit and a $2 drill bit as they look the same. The difference is accuracy. I sharpen new bits as soon as I get them and find many times the true center of the ground point is off several thousandths. ( not so , on the expensive drills). A drill bit "walks because the chisel point on them causes them to. sharpened with the facets there is a point instead of a chisel point and they don't walk easily. the sharpened drills cut a smoother , more accurate hole with less effort.

Here are a couple photos of the drill sharpener.
drill sharpener.jpg
drill sharpener2.jpg
drill sharpener3.jpg

I built mine by trying to reverse engineer john's info on his site but lacked just a few details and he was gracious enough to assist me with what I needed. Many have built this drill sharpener and like the tool grinder no two are alike. Everyone puts their own style and twist on it.

I don't have a set of drawn plans but do have all my notes and drawings, but I cannot and would not post them without John's permission. Anyone passionate enough about this may be able to get the needed info from him.

It is a fantastic machine and I thank John for inventing it.

A note: I built this machine almost entirely from my scrap box using what I could find. I bought the ER20 collets and holder for about $30 and I bought the mini grinder at harbor Freight for about $25. .. oh and the diamond wheel off ebay for $12. The rest i s whatever I could scrounge up.
 
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TomS

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Mark,

I have no intention of building a tool and cutter grinder, at least at the present time, but I have been watching your build thread since you started it. I've been around machine tools my entire career and I'd like to think I know something about machining. Your build thread has been fascinating and informative and I've learned a few new "tricks" along the way.

Thanks for the opportunity to watch a craftsman at his trade.

Tom S
 

mark_f

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Got started on the spindle today. Had to wait till I was in the mood for this because it is the only piece of material I have that will make this housing. I can't afford to mess it up....BUT I DID ANYWAY!!!!! .... almost. I put it in the 4 jaw chuck, got it running true, drilled a 1" hole all the way through, bored it out to 1.125", all is good so far.

boring spindle housing.jpg This is the hosing being bored out.

I bored the first bearing hole to within .010" of size, then came out and bored the end for the oil seal. Still good. I went back and snuck ( is that a word... or sneaked) up on the size cutting .002" at a time. The pucker factor is unreal at this point.:nail biter: I got close and polished with emery cloth.... the bearing is a stiff hand press in :grin: " whewwww!
spindle housing.jpg First side is done. Now turn it around in the 4 jaw, get it running true and bore the second side. Bored to within .010" and came out and bored the end for the oil seal, good so far.... now back to sneaking up on the last bore .002" at a time. ..... Still needs .004" to come out ..... WHAT THE..... that looks like more than two thousandths. The bearing falls in the bore with a couple thousandths to spare!!!!!! :cry:......:faint:. After I cooled down a little , I thought .... the bearing is 12 mm wide....I will bore deeper .250" and get it right, that will hold the bearing and just move it in .250" more. I bore a cut and check fit, bore and check fit, getting close bearing sticks in the end of the bore...... Oh rats... it seems to be stuck... I'll give it a little bump out to get it loose and .... OOPS!!! the angular contact bearing comes apart and the little balls are rolling all over the shop floor :cry:..... after an hour of crawling and looking, I found all ten balls, washed everything up and put it back together and it seems fine.
spindle housing1.jpg If you look close , that is why this bore looks deeper. It is .250" deeper than the other end. I will put this on the pulley end. It should be ok.

spindle housing2.jpg Drilled an oil fill hole and fit a 1/8" pipe plug to it. and the housing is done. GOD...... I hope the spindle goes easier than this did.:(
 

mark_f

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I am going to New York tomorrow to pick up a disassembled Burke mill for parts to fix mine with. Will make the spindle on Wednesday, I hope. Boy.... I can't wait till this part is done. That was why I kept putting it off because I knew it was going to be roughest.
 

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Mark,

Pertaining to air bearing build discussed previously: Home Shop Machinist ran an article by Philip Duclos, in the September & October issue of 1985 , "Floating End Mill Sharpener".
I built one back then, haven't found the origional issue yet, but I did find the Xerox copy I used in the shop.
It's complete with pencil marks, oil stains and the usual shop grime that gets on drawings.
Scan is attached. I do not know if its all there, I scanned what was in the folder.
For the Bonelle size machine I think it should be scaled down somewhat.
Hope this helps!

Did you get the Burke parts home? I had one of those years ago. It was a WW-2 production machine, rack & pinion feed, no back gears etc. thus I sold it.

Enjoy !
Restorer
 

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mark_f

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Yes, I got the parts and have been working the last few days getting them on the mill. It is so much better. The mill is a joy to use now. I can't believe how much better it is.

Thank you for the article. I had heard about it but couldn't find it. It will make good reading. I have heard it is very difficult to build. How did yours work out. Everything I read says an air bearing is difficult to make successfully.
 

mark_f

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I plan to get the spindle for the grinder made this weekend.
 

mark_f

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Today , I started the spindle. Turned a piece of 1" CRS to rough size and the bearings fell on and off, ....SCRAP!!! ..(it pays to double check things). Got another piece of 1" CRS and rough turned the shaft to +.030". Turned the .875" step for the oil seal then turned it around and chucked it in the 4 jaw to turn true (.0005"). Now to drill and turn the ER 20 collet taper.
turning taper for collet.jpg Here I am turning the taper for the collet. Next will be the threads for the collet nut.

threads complete.jpg The threads are done. Since I can't single point metric threads on my South Bend (yet), I had purchased a 25 x 1.5 die from China for $10. If it does only this job, it is worth it.


Now, Before you start laughing..... I was desperate. I needed a die holder and did not have any material big enough to make one, so I got my Ch.... I mean import die holder to do the job.
import die holder.jpg It actually worked really well.

nut fits.jpg The nut fits!

Concentricity ( is that a word?) is important on this high speed spindle. I turned the collet taper and the oil seal step in the same operation , so I know they are true. Now I need to turn the bearing journals to be concentric with the collet, So I put a 1/2" dowel in the collet and put a 1/2" collet in the lathe too hold the other end of the dowel. When I first rough turned the shaft I had center drilled it first, so I put a center in the other end and everything is turning true.
turning setup for bearings.jpg This is the setup. I will turn the bearing surfaces tomorrow.
 

wrmiller

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Love the die holder. As a Marine we were taught to improvise, adapt, overcome. Looks like you went to a similar school. :)

And yes, that is a word.
 

rwm

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Mark - that spindle looks great. A lot of talent in those seemingly simple operations.
Did you have any trouble with a die that large keeping it straight while starting the thread? How did you set up to machine the taper?
R
 

Bill Gruby

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I had an American made Die Mark. It still gave me the fits. Extremely hard to start. As said somewhere else by Tony. The Dies we get are not true Dies, they are thread chasers. To start the Die I used a piece of round stock between it and the tail stock.

"Billy G"
 

mark_f

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I had an American made Die Mark. It still gave me the fits. Extremely hard to start. As said somewhere else by Tony. The Dies we get are not true Dies, they are thread chasers. To start the Die I used a piece of round stock between it and the tail stock.

"Billy G"
To answer all the questions above. The import die looked the same on both sides so I could not tell which side was to start. I picked one and cut about three threads and it would not go any more. I turned it around and it worked much better. I can't see the difference but there must be one.

To start it straight (especially with that high tech die holder), I put the die against the shaft and backed it up with the flat side of my QCTP and used the carriage to put pressure on the die as I started it. Once it is started , it is going to follow that path, straight or crooked. The QCTP held it flat and started it straight. ( I have used this method before I made a die holder for the tail stock). I was really impressed with this cheap $10 die. It started easy and it made really good fitting threads and nice and sharp and clean. I was surprised, but it takes a lot to turn a die that large. The hardest part was keeping the part from turning in the chuck.

To set up the collet taper ( cut using the compound) I had a 17/32" hole in the end of the part as it was still set up from the turning. I put a 1/2" center in the collet with the point into the hole. This centered that end. The other end of the collet had a 1/2" dowel in it that was chucked in my live drill chuck for the tail stock. This centered that end. I set the compound for 10 degrees and used it to run an indicator along the side of the collet. when the indicator reads zero the length of the collet, the angle is set. Then I remove all the junk ... er I mean .... precision set up equipment and cut the taper with the compound. This was all done before the threading. I did the threading last so I couldn't knock anything out of whack. After all this thing has to be very concentric and spin true. I have everything within .0005"

I probably should have taken photos doing all this but never thought of it as I was tightly puckered, sweating, and concentrating on not screwing up a spindle I spent a lot of time on.
 

mark_f

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I brought home my $100 die filer today also. It is made by Oliver Instrument Co. , has a 2" stroke, a removable over arm, a 12" round table that tilts in both directions ( X and Y), the yoke is in a closed crank case with oil, and it runs smooth and nice. Just needs a little cleaning up. i don't know what they sell for but thought this was a good deal.
die filer2.jpg die filer3.jpg
die filer.jpg
 

mark_f

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I love a good deal :grin: :grin: :grin:

I set it on the scale and it is just a shade under 100 lbs. ( it took all I had to get it up on the bench)
 

Billh50

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Just a note about that drill sharpener. The prints for all the parts are in the January issue of The Home Shop Machinist. It took me about 2 weeks to locate a copy but I have it.
 

sgisler

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Oops, wrong thread!

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1427152773.984617.jpg ImageUploadedByTapatalk1427152786.490415.jpg
 
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rwm

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Mark- thanks for your reply. That makes sense.
I also think that is a great buy on the filer. Very nice looking machine. I'm glad it found a good home.
R
 

mark_f

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I completed the spindle today. I took a bunch of photos of the process and accidentally deleted them trying to transfer them from my phone. I only got one. I am bummed out about it , but it is what it is.
comlete spindle.jpg I described below ( hopefully easy to understand) what I did to finish the spindle. Hopefully the one photo I did get here fills in the gaps. Once the bearings fit the spindle, I threaded the end and cut a 1/8" key way to hold the pulley. you can see the key way on the right. I next put a blind .125" hole in the shaft behind the collet nut for a pin wrench ( spanner wrench to some of you :grin:) to hold the shaft while tightening the collet. Next I put the bearings in the housing back towards back and installed the oil seals. I put the spindle in and as soon as I make the pulleys, It will be ready to run. The spindle pulley will have a short bushing turned on the back side to provide the oil seal surface. Tightening the nut that holds the pulley on captures the bearings and preloads them all at the same time. The manufacturer says the preload is built into the bearings and is set when the nut is tightened. I am using a lock nut to prevent it from coming loose.

turning setup for bearings.jpg This was the setup photo for finishing the spindle. I cut this down to .675" and then undercut the center .020" between the bearing journals. The first bearing sits on a journal covering 1/2" behind the left end, then the 3" undercut and then another 1/2" wide journal, and the remaining end was turned down to .500" and threaded 1/2-20 for 1 inch. I used a file to cut the bearing journals to size as I don't have any way to grind them. Once they are within .0005" of finish size, I polished them to a mirror finish and to size with 320, 400, then 600 grit paper.


The pulleys are next on the agenda.
 

genec

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Got started on the spindle today. Had to wait till I was in the mood for this because it is the only piece of material I have that will make this housing. I can't afford to mess it up....BUT I DID ANYWAY!!!!! .... almost. I put it in the 4 jaw chuck, got it running true, drilled a 1" hole all the way through, bored it out to 1.125", all is good so far.

View attachment 97816 This is the hosing being bored out.

I bored the first bearing hole to within .010" of size, then came out and bored the end for the oil seal. Still good. I went back and snuck ( is that a word... or sneaked) up on the size cutting .002" at a time. The pucker factor is unreal at this point.:nail biter: I got close and polished with emery cloth.... the bearing is a stiff hand press in :grin: " whewwww!
View attachment 97817 First side is done. Now turn it around in the 4 jaw, get it running true and bore the second side. Bored to within .010" and came out and bored the end for the oil seal, good so far.... now back to sneaking up on the last bore .002" at a time. ..... Still needs .004" to come out ..... WHAT THE..... that looks like more than two thousandths. The bearing falls in the bore with a couple thousandths to spare!!!!!! :cry:......:faint:. After I cooled down a little , I thought .... the bearing is 12 mm wide....I will bore deeper .250" and get it right, that will hold the bearing and just move it in .250" more. I bore a cut and check fit, bore and check fit, getting close bearing sticks in the end of the bore...... Oh rats... it seems to be stuck... I'll give it a little bump out to get it loose and .... OOPS!!! the angular contact bearing comes apart and the little balls are rolling all over the shop floor :cry:..... after an hour of crawling and looking, I found all ten balls, washed everything up and put it back together and it seems fine.
View attachment 97818 If you look close , that is why this bore looks deeper. It is .250" deeper than the other end. I will put this on the pulley end. It should be ok.

View attachment 97819 Drilled an oil fill hole and fit a 1/8" pipe plug to it. and the housing is done. GOD...... I hope the spindle goes easier than this did.:(
It helps if you sweep the floor before you start a project like that so you can find your bearings but then hindsight so is 20/20
 

mark_f

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It helps if you sweep the floor before you start a project like that so you can find your bearings but then hindsight so is 20/20
I vacuum my floor and machines everyday with a shop vac, but it is a shop and they still are a little dirty. Murphy's law says the thing you are looking for rolled under something to a place you can't access.:(
 
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