Tormach Superfly Cutter On 1hp Machine?

[higgite]

I only got one response for this question in the Tormach CNC subforum, so I'll try again here.

Tormach touts the Superfly as being ideal for machines under 3HP, but I don't see where they say how much under 3HP. My LMS manual bench mill (basically a SIEG SX2.7) has a 750 watt (1 HP) brushless DC motor, belt drive, 2000 RPM max spindle speed. I'm wondering, with those HP and RPM limits, would I see any added benefit from a Superfly over a run of the mill (pardon the pun) fly cutter with HSS or brazed carbide tool bit? Thanks.

Tom

 

[Bob Korves]

With sharp tools of proper geometry, super light cuts, and high speeds, almost any mill will do nice work, even with a shop made fly cutter. Fly cutters are very simple tools, and are difficult to improve upon. I am using shop made fly cutters that are more than 50 years old, and they work great. Your SIEG is WELL under 3 HP, and your 750 watts is maximum input, not sustained output (Asian horses...)

My 1966 Burke Millrite has a 3/4 HP rated, 1155 RPM motor, draws 6.5 amps at 230 volts, which is 1495 watts, and is rated for continuous duty at that output (old school American plow horses.) I will put my 3/4 HP up against your 1 HP any time you want to...

 

[mikey]

Tom, I bought the Superfly but the mill it will be used with is currently in pieces so I can't tell you how well it works yet. However, it does work with their PCNC 440, which has a 3/4HP DC motor so I should think it will work for you. See this link:

If you buy it, get the inserts on ebay - waaay cheaper than buying them from Tormach.

 

[higgite]

Bob,
I’ll pass on the HP challenge. I was born at night, but not last night. I assume (yeah, I know) that Tormach would be talking in terms of Asian horses, though I could be wrong.


Mikey,
I hesitate to compare my machine’s capabilities with the 440’s, only because the 440 will turn 10,000 RPM and mine peaks at 2000. Get your mill back together so “we” can see what the Superfly can do.

Tom

 

[Andre]

Considering the Tormach 440 is only o.8 horsepower, it will probably will work fine. I doubt they would sell a tool that wouldn't work in any one of their machines without letting you know.

My bridgeport M-head is only 1/2 HP, never ran out of juice for what I do.

 

[mikey]

I'm not too worried about the speed. The mill this cutter will go on will max at 2500 rpm but it will be fine for aluminum and steel. I'm maybe a week or two away from finishing cleaning the mill up, then I have to tram it but you can bet that flycutter will be the first tool I test. I'll let you know how it goes so "we" have an idea of what it can do.

 

[mikey]

HEY TOM!!

Sorry for shouting but I wanted to let you know that I tested the Tormach Superfly cutter on my RF-31 with a Baldor 1HP motor on it (soon to have a Baldor 2HP w/VFD). I needed to square a piece of 6061 for a project and it was the perfect project to assess the new cutter.

In a word, I was UNDERWHELMED.

To be fair, I extended the cutter to flycut a 3" wide piece. Whether this has anything to do with the finish it produces I'm not sure. The deepest cut I took was only 0.010" but at 440 rpm the motor didn't even slow down. In fact, I heard no change in motor load so I suspect that Tormach's claims that this cutter works on low horsepower mills is true. A heavier cut might slow it but if you take reasonable cuts as we do when squaring a work piece then your mill should handle this tool without any issues.

The tools cuts much cleaner on the front of the tool; the backside leaves slight ridges that are not palpable but are visible. This is seen when feeding in either direction in X, and it doesn't seem to matter what speed your spindle turns at or what the X-axis feed rate is; the pattern is the same.

I initially tried it at 440 rpm. This is the cutting speed based on the cutting conditions on the insert box. It cut just fine but that ridged pattern is clear to see. Then I increased spindle rpm to 1800 to get near your 2000 rpm limit to show how it worked.

440 rpm start:



440 rpm finish:



440 rpm climb finish, 0.003" doc:



1800 rpm, 005" doc:



1800 rpm finish pass, 0.003" doc:



1800 rpm, 0.003" doc, not really a mirror finish in my book:



As I said, the finish is less finished than I expected. It may be that I need to learn how to use the tool properly but I've been using flycutters for 25+ years and I sorta know how to use the thing. This one cuts easily, can handle decent depths of cut and seems to create cutting loads that a 1HP motor can handle with no problem. It just doesn't finish anywhere near what I expected. Now, my baseline expectation is a Sherline inserted tip carbide flycutter. This tool will put a finish on aluminum that would frost your eyeballs so maybe my expectations may be a bit high.

With all that said, this is my opinion: It does what they say and will produce a flat surface over a 3" wide area. If you only need it for squaring work pieces then it will work just fine. If you are expecting a super-fine finish that you can display without further finishing of the surface then keep looking - this is not the tool. It will work with your 1HP motor.

Things may change as I get used to the tool. Who knows, maybe I messed up locking down the insert (not very likely) or something. I do not regret buying it. Not many flycutters will cut a 3" wide surface unless you build it. Suburban Tools flycutter might work better but it is more costly. For me, this will have to do.

 

[Groundhog]

I've been using a Superfly on my 1HP (the little Asian horses) on my Syil X4+ for a couple of years. I got one when they first came out whenever that is. I use it mostly on aluminum. It works better than the regular fly cutters I had and has pretty much replaced them. Horsepower is not an issue. Finish is as good as any tool I've seen (if mill is in tram) but if I want a mirror finish I polish with a buffing wheel.

 

[higgite]

Mikey,

Thanks for the feedback. I agree, the finish looks a little disappointing, especially for aluminum, although the higher speed cut looks somewhat cleaner in your pics. A couple of Tormach videos on youtube show a similar pattern, but more prominent in steel, not so much in aluminum. Of course, they’re going to make them look as good as they can. If I may ask, what insert did you use and did you use any cutting fluid?

And don’t worry about shouting at me to get my attention. I appreciate it. It beats a whack upside the head with a 2x4. Don’t ask me how I know that.

Tom

 

[mikey]

Mikey,

Thanks for the feedback. I agree, the finish looks a little disappointing, especially for aluminum, although the higher speed cut looks somewhat cleaner in your pics. A couple of Tormach videos on youtube show a similar pattern, but more prominent in steel, not so much in aluminum. Of course, they’re going to make them look as good as they can. If I may ask, what insert did you use and did you use any cutting fluid?

And don’t worry about shouting at me to get my attention. I appreciate it. It beats a whack upside the head with a 2x4. Don’t ask me how I know that.

Tom

I used a Korloy SEHT1204AFFN-X83, H01 grade insert; it is an uncoated micrograin carbide insert with a positive rake geometry intended for cutting aluminum. This is the exact insert Tormach sells for use with the Superfly. I just used WD-40 for all these cuts.

I could have made the pics of the finish look much nicer if I wanted to but I tried hard to show the flaws, not hide them. I suspect if I use 2500 rpm the finish will get even better but I recalled your mill is limited to 2000 so I tried to stay near that limit. With my Sherline flycutter I run it at 2800 rpm and it gives a true mirror finish, like glass. Of course, the insert with that tool cuts with the point while the Superfly cutter uses an edge about 0.10" wide.

I think it works well enough as a flycutter. You can also grind HSS tooling and use it in the Superfly to improve the finish even more.

I wanted to answer your question as to whether or not it would work adequately on an underpowered mill like ours and it does work well, albeit with the finish issues I found. Will it replace a face mill? Yup, I suspect it will. Do you need it? Dunno, but I do. Am I satisfied? Kinda sorta; it will have to do until I figure out a better option. Is it worth the cost? It is for me. Finding a flycutter that will work with a 1HP motor while cutting a 3" wide swath is not hard; finding one that takes a carbide insert is. The options are the Tormach or the Suburban Tool models as far as I know. Beyond that we are left with face mills and I don't want to use them.

Hope this helps you to decide, Tom. Let me know if you have any other questions.

Edit: I forgot to mention - this sucker throws chips far! Most of them will be thrown at 1-2 O'clock when cutting right to left, and 7-8 O'clock when feeding the other way. Wear safety glasses and stay clear - the chips get hot.

Mike