VFD/Bridgeport issue

[Sonora]

I posted this but put it in the post for "Welcomes and Introductions", so not only am I new to machining, but also to navigating the forum. Sorry for the repetition, but maybe now I am in the right spot.


Hey everyone, I have been reading the posts as a guest, and have become convinced to start machining as a hobby. Through my online research, I decided to get a Bridgeport (2J head) and hook it to a VFD to go from single phase 220. The mill I bought worked fine in the shop where I bought it (Massachusetts) where it was hooked to 3 phase, I then loaded it up and took it home to Texas which was around 2000 miles. I put it in my shop and hooked it up to a VFD. However, I hooked it up through the Bridgeport switch (which I know now was the wrong thing to do - especially after hearing the unwanted "crack/pop" then getting to smell the vfd components burn). So now I am on vfd #2 and I hooked it up directly to the motor. Now when I turn on the vfd and push "run" I hear a fan start up (i am assuming a cooling fan within the motor), but the motor does not turn. I removed the cover on top of the motor, exposing the top of the motor, and when I hit "run" the motor starts to turn (about 1/4") then does nothing as if not enough power. The vfd I have is rated for 3HP, and my motor is 2HP. The factory setting on the vfd is set for 400 HZ, and I reset it to 50 HZ to start, once it didn't work, I put it back to 400 and I could hear the cooling motor really wind up as if were going to take off, but the motor still wouldn't run. I am concerned that I may have fried the motor when I hooked it up initially with the first vfd. Also, I rotated the head 180 degrees (upside down) for transport to reduce overall height, could this have screwed it up?

Thanks in advance for the help - through my reading of the posts, I know that there is a wealth of knowledge on this forum that can steer me in the right direction.

 

[Rbeckett]

Kenny I will take care of it. Sonora, thats fine, everybody has to learn so no worries. Welcome to the group and hope You have a great time here too.
Bob

 

[Sonora]

Kennyd, I received your post via email, but not on the forum, so I hope I am posting this where you can find it.

As requested, here are a few pictures of how the unit is wired. Also, this is wired in the "low volt" configuration that is indicated on the motor nameplate. As for the vfd, it is a Huanyang.

 

[Kennyd]

Pictures are GREAT! Thanks!

Here is a link to the manual for others to help as well: http://www.etech.net.au/Huanyang/Huanyang_English_Manual-c.pdf

Turning the motor upside down should not matter. I have no clue what the cooling fan your hearing is-I know the VFD has one but you said it was "within the motor".

What model is the VFD? I want to make sure you don't have a 380v drive.

Looking thru the manual, I see nowhere where it defaults to 400hz-looks like 50 to me?

I would suggest setiing these values to get started:
PD003>60hz
PD005>60hz
PD005>90hz (if you want to be able to increase the speed of the motor, if not then set to 60hz max.)
PD008>Check to see if its 220v or 380v
PD011>30hz (if you want to be able to decrease the speed of the motor, if not then set to 60hz)

That "should" get it running assuming the motor is healthy.

 

[Pacer]

Defaulting to 400hz? would this possibly be one of the Huangyang? units that have popped up on ebay? I got one and it defaults to 400hz... If so, there are going to be some differences in it altho nothing major in the basic setup (some of the parameters are different)

 

[Sonora]

Pacer, you are correct, it is one of the Ebay specials, so if parameters are different than the ones suggested by kennyd, please let me know. However, I will deffinately try the suggestions made, and the manual that Kennyd posted is virtually identical to the one that came with the unit.

As for the fan noise, the vfd is making its fan noise, but there is definately a "whirring" noise from the BP motor that accelerates as the frequency increases on the vfd. The acceleration of the noise would be equivalent to what I would expect from the motor itself as noted on some youtube videos that had a vfd operating (gradual acceleration). With the top motor cover off and the "fan blades" exposed (they are similar to fan blades, but not angled, so not sure what their purpose is -- they are definately attached to the motor though, because when i manually turn them the motor/spindle turns as well), when I turn on the vfd, they start to turn (very slight movement), then stop, but the "whirring" noise within the motor continues to accelerate.

Also, assuming I ever get the thing running, since this is a 2J head with a variable speed built in, will I be able to leave the frequency at 60 and adjust the speed via the dial on the head?


Okay, I couldn't handle the anticipation, so I just ran to the shop in a 12" snow storm (which is Texan for one snow flake every 12" - but it's still snow) to check out the suggestions. The parameters that Kennyd suggested were already set in the unit (except I had 50 HZ in PD003, but changed it to 60 as suggested).

As for the model number, well, you get what you pay for. There was no model # on the unit, however, it did say 2.2 KW 220V on the face, which, by looking in the manual, would indicate a model #HY02D223B.

Also, so you guys wouldn't think I was nuts, I took a picture of the "fan" thingy that i tried to describe above.

 

[Pacer]

Sonoro,

I apologize in advance --- I am a bit covered up what with a a tree falling on my house (relatively minor damage, but huge mess and then the insurance...), and some health issues, and my memory is not good enough to recall the final procedure of getting the VFD set up. I had previously done 4 Hitachis and a Teco and the Huangyang was just different enough to give me some problems - I remember especially having probs with getting reverse to function using a remote toggle, and the HZ gave me a bit of head scratch.

This is a pic of the switch box on my lathe with the Huangyang - the left sw is for the incoming 220v to turn the VFD on and the fwd/off/rev switch is for the 24v parameter settings, and then the potentiometer...

 

[Kennyd]

Pacer, you are correct, it is one of the Ebay specials, so if parameters are different than the ones suggested by kennyd, please let me know. However, I will deffinately try the suggestions made, and the manual that Kennyd posted is virtually identical to the one that came with the unit.

As for the fan noise, the vfd is making its fan noise, but there is definately a "whirring" noise from the BP motor that accelerates as the frequency increases on the vfd. The acceleration of the noise would be equivalent to what I would expect from the motor itself as noted on some youtube videos that had a vfd operating (gradual acceleration). With the top motor cover off and the "fan blades" exposed (they are similar to fan blades, but not angled, so not sure what their purpose is -- they are definately attached to the motor though, because when i manually turn them the motor/spindle turns as well), when I turn on the vfd, they start to turn (very slight movement), then stop, but the "whirring" noise within the motor continues to accelerate.

Also, assuming I ever get the thing running, since this is a 2J head with a variable speed built in, will I be able to leave the frequency at 60 and adjust the speed via the dial on the head?


Okay, I couldn't handle the anticipation, so I just ran to the shop in a 12" snow storm (which is Texan for one snow flake every 12" - but it's still snow) to check out the suggestions. The parameters that Kennyd suggested were already set in the unit (except I had 50 HZ in PD003, but changed it to 60 as suggested).

As for the model number, well, you get what you pay for. There was no model # on the unit, however, it did say 2.2 KW 220V on the face, which, by looking in the manual, would indicate a model #HY02D223B.

Also, so you guys wouldn't think I was nuts, I took a picture of the "fan" thingy that i tried to describe above.

Well, I am almost stumped. I cant see why the motor is making a noise and not moving.

I can only suggest you double check the wiring at the motor to ensure its hooked up for the low voltage option, and maybe test with a DVOM the voltage output of the VFD

Oh, and you do have 220v feeding the VFD correct?

 

[Sonora]

Pacer, I am planning on doing a similar setup once the initial problem of getting the mill to run is solved. One difference that I was planning on making was to leave off the potentiometer, set the vfd to 60 and use the hand crank on the Bridgeport 2J head to adjust speed. Is this practical?

Kennyd, I do have 220 going to the vfd, and I did test the voltage out to the BP, but I don't remember the numbers so I will retest and post those. I also verified the '"low volt" wiring was correct.

 

[rdhem2]

I put a VFD on my Bridgeport and its main purpose is the single to three phase conversion. My BP has the vari drive J head so why spend money on wires when the handy crank handle will work just fine to adjust the speed.

Now the noise in the motor is the excitation of the windings. The "COOLING" fan barely wiggles because it is a reaction to the residual magnitism in the stator core. It wants to go, just does not have the power. Remember, with a VFD the windings of the motor are energized at all times the VFD is powered up. Grab the motor leads even when not running and it will knock you into tomorrow. The voltage to the windings is usually fairly stable. What is controled is the cycles and current flow. Remember, no amps, no work. No cycles, no speed reference.

Next a VFD needs two signals to run. Direction (fwd/rev--off/on) and speed reference from the key pad, external pot or electronic reference (ie RS-485 signal) In short you need RUN and HOW FAST. If the fan wiggles my guess is you have run, but the speed reference is "0". So No go. Tell it how fast 0-60 Hz, 0-100%, 0-1800 rpm. Most drives will reference all three levels depending on how they are set up acheiving the same end result.

Next. I have no clue as to why it seems to default to 400Hz. Like a lot of chinese things. Magic must be in the smoke, so don't let it out!
I always shy away from using anything but the 60Hz setting. Your motor,(balancing, air gaps, bearings, bearing supports) is not DESIGNED to operate at more then the rated name plate RPM. Like my Dad used to tell me everytime I wanted to "fix" my car "Those guys in Detroit didn't go to school for nothing you know!" Point is just because the feature exists does not mean it is wise to use it. As with the motor, the rest of the machine was not designed to handle more than rated speed either. It defies the laws of engineering to have peak performance at both the low and high end of the spectrum. So like they said in the service "Smoke'em if you must!"

:nono:​