VFD

[WDG]

thanks

220 is already there so I will go that rout. Thanks for all your help.

Just my two cents worth but if 220 is available I will always use it. The reason is to keep the load balanced on the conductors feed the circuit panel. If you use 110 you could conceivably have more current on one leg than the other unless you use a meter and balance the load. If you use 220 all the time you don't have that problem. As far as cost or efficiency, watts is watts.

 

[John Hasler]

I'll try one more time and then I done! Yes the do have the same wattage but the whole point that you are missing is on 110v you have 1440 watts on one leg the meter reads the most draw, but with 220v you have two legs 720 watts on each leg so the meter only reads 720 watts not 1440 this is why you see most equipment wired for 220v.

The utility meter sees the total power whether it's all on one leg, all on the other, or distributed across both.

Large loads such as integral-hp motors are 220 primarily because 220 wiring is cheaper for them.

 

[Ray C]

I'll try one more time and then I done! Yes the do have the same wattage but the whole point that you are missing is on 110v you have 1440 watts on one leg the meter reads the most draw, but with 220v you have two legs 720 watts on each leg so the meter only reads 720 watts not 1440 this is why you see most equipment wired for 220v. As to the smaller motors it make no difference it does if you are running a lot of machines by running 220v you balance the load, I've got probably 15 machines in my shops at this point i need to convert 4 to 220v. Now if you are running 220v your load is balanced if your running 110v you need to look at what runs the most and by moving the breakers you can balance the load and yes it will reduce your electric bill. My shop cost me about $20 a month to run in the summer which is when I'm in it the most. By paying attention to what is doing what I've reduced my electric bill by $50 this month and it was colder this year than it was last year. It's the little things that add up and every small motors add up over time if you use them on a regular basis.
Just to be should I talked to my son who is a Journeyman Electrician and that is what he told me as well.

Todd:whiteflag:
PS. I'm only trying to help none of us can afford to waste money an every penny counts in retirement!!

Todd, the meter is reading both legs -I can guarantee that. What comes in for residential power is two hot wires and a ground/neutral (see note). The two hot wires are 180 degrees out of phase. If you touch the two hot wires together you better be wearing your welding helmet.

A properly functioning meter will read the current through both legs and keep track of power used. We have the new meters in our area that automatically send the usage data to the electric company. The new meters are smart. They even watch the ground for excess voltage. They also monitor balance. If it detects issues, we get a call or letter from the power company. I got a letter indicating a possible balance issue. If they can tell me that, I know for sure they're reading both legs. I can also login to my account and it shows the power usage on an hourly basis (and I'm not really crazy that they collect such information about me).


Ray

NOTE: Please, let's not re-start the discussion about ground vs neutral at the service entrance panel.

 

[John Hasler]

Just my two cents worth but if 220 is available I will always use it. The reason is to keep the load balanced on the conductors feed the circuit panel. If you use 110 you could conceivably have more current on one leg than the other unless you use a meter and balance the load.

Until Xcel starts offering a discount for balanced loads or I start getting close to 100 amps I'm not going to obsess about it.

 

[Ray C]

Until Xcel starts offering a discount for balanced loads or I start getting close to 100 amps I'm not going to obsess about it.

Ain't that the truth... In a given neighborhood, it all works-out in the wash as for all you know, your neighbor is top-heavy on the other leg.

I've been working on a lot of private yachts lately and they all have nice onboard generators anywhere from 10 to 75 kW (yes, 75 kW!) and they all have load meters on the individual legs. If you're really top-heavy on a particular leg, it vibrates and wears-out the generator over time.

Ray

 

[dave2176]

I think what Todd is saying is if I use 5,000 watts on leg 1 and 4,000 watts on leg 2 my meter is recording 10,000 watts of use not 9,000. You used to be able to see it on the old meters with the spinning plate in them. They will spin at the rate of the highest leg. At least that is how it was when I went to electrician school 35 years ago.

Dave

 

[AlanR]

NOTE: Please, let's not re-start the discussion about ground vs neutral at the service entrance panel.

Let's talk about power factor and VARs then, that'll keep us going for a while. We can even discuss imaginary numbers.

 

[Ray C]

Let's talk about power factor and VARs then, that'll keep us going for a while. We can even discuss imaginary numbers.

Power Factor is when politicians pass rules and laws that suit their desires and not ours.

VARs are "Value Added Resellers" who sometimes vastly markup a product after making only a marginal improvement in it.

Imaginary Numbers are what the theoretical physicist guys use when they try to figure-out why new space keeps getting added to the Universe.


There, y'a happy? Next topic.... :lmao:


Ray

- - - Updated - - -

I think what Todd is saying is if I use 5,000 watts on leg 1 and 4,000 watts on leg 2 my meter is recording 10,000 watts of use not 9,000. You used to be able to see it on the old meters with the spinning plate in them. They will spin at the rate of the highest leg. At least that is how it was when I went to electrician school 35 years ago.

Dave

All I know is when I had my old style meter, there were times it was spinning so fast, I could have cut salami like they do at the meat counter.


Ray

 

[AlanR]

Power Factor is when politicians pass rules and laws that suit their desires and not ours.

VARs are "Value Added Resellers" who sometimes vastly markup a product after making only a marginal improvement in it.

Imaginary Numbers are what the theoretical physicist guys use when they try to figure-out why new space keeps getting added to the Universe.

Ray

You did good. What's a KVA?

 

[John Hasler]

I think what Todd is saying is if I use 5,000 watts on leg 1 and 4,000 watts on leg 2 my meter is recording 10,000 watts of use not 9,000. You used to be able to see it on the old meters with the spinning plate in them. They will spin at the rate of the highest leg. At least that is how it was when I went to electrician school 35 years ago.

Dave

The meter has a coil for the current in each line and one for the voltage. It correctly records the total power, taking any imbalance into account.