What are the risks of an electrical setup like this.

Personally, I am very glad that this thread has carried on the way it has...

There is a lot of good information here, and I have learned a lot.

Thanks for the clear explanations.

-Bear
 
edit reread all the posts, OP fixed it with a 4 wire to box and then added a 120VAC outlet with ground.
All Good.
 
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MyLilMule said:
I would not make assumptions about me or my thought processes (if there are any) or of things about which I am or am not critical.
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Sorry, I wasn't aware of having made any deductive leaps. I thought I was just summarizing your own words. You introduced yourself into the discussion with criticism of the conversation as a whole, directed at both sides, and then gave an account of your own thought processes on the matter; how you would have handled your own curiosity if you had any. My only reason for restating (in my own words, admittedly) your outlook was to express puzzlement at why you reacted that critical way, which you didn't address. So I ask, why is it you have a problem with how this conversation was conducted prior to your arrival?

I'm not picking on you; if you look back to my first reply on this thread it might be obvious that I was already expecting this (your) kind of response because I've seen time and again how discussions like this typically play out (this discussion has been a rare exception in what I consider to be a good way) and I don't understand it. It's like some people can't tolerate others being curious about the why behind things generally considered canonical.
 
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OK, here are some hows.

If what was originally proposed by the OP, there would be current flowing through the grounding circuit. However, the resultant voltage drop would be n3gligible. Assuming a 100 watt bulb, the current would be less than an amp. 16AWG wire would have a resistance of 4 milliohms/ ft. If there was a 100 ft of wire running to the bonding point, the voltage drop (RMS) would be .4 volts. A stick welder has an OCV in the neighborhood of 25-30 volts by comparison. 30 volt a.c. is considered the threshold for a lethal voltage. In most situations, 40 to 50 volts is required to be lethal.

If one were to experience a fault where the hot side of the lamp circuit were to contact the grounded frame, the breaker would immediately be tripped upon power up. A fault consisting of a break in the ground circuit would in effect bring the frame of the lathe to line voltage with potentially serious consequences depending upon environment. This would be characterized by the lamp failing to light. A poor ground connection would result in a dim lamp, the extent of which would depend upon the resistance of the connection relative to the resistance of the lamp bulb.
 
strantor said:
So I ask, why is it you have a problem with how this conversation was conducted prior to your arrival?
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Let's clear one thing up - I made the FIRST reply after the OP. There was no conversation prior to my arrival.

BUT, that fact has nothing to do with the substance or accuracy of that reply, nor does it have anything to do with the accuracy of any subsequent replies by anyone. It has everything to do with making assumptions about things that are either 1) provable to be false by existing evidence and 2) are made by inferring something in a post on a public forum that is more about personal bias than the facts as presented. Which one could conclude (is than an assumption?) that you did both.
strantor said:
I'm not picking on you; if you look back to my first reply on this thread it might be obvious that I was already expecting this (your) kind of response because I've seen time and again how discussions like this typically play out (this discussion has been a rare exception in what I consider to be a good way) and I don't understand it.
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I could make the assumption that you are in fact "picking on me" because you continue to state you expected my "kind of response," I assume you meant my SECOND response to this thread where I facetiously injected some humor and fainted exasperation as if I was having a conversation with a toddler. It's almost as if you feel you are too smart for the room and expect everyone to be dumber and bring their own dumb ideas. There I go, making more assumptions, (he says sarcastically).
strantor said:
It's like some people can't tolerate others being curious about the why behind things generally considered canonical.
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How would you know what other people are thinking? Instead of assuming what people are thinking, maybe just take it all at face value without reading between the lines. Did I make another assumption?

But alas, I digress. We are five (5) pages deep into a thread that started with a question that is probably covered, at least in part, in over 1,000 YouTube videos. Likely more. Here's one I picked at random.


In any case, I am happy to read, and I assume it is true, that the OP is going to wire everything up according to code.

</sarcasm>
 
D.sebens said:
So I’m not arguing but why it’s neutral and ground bonded in the box. What is the scenario that leads to electrocution?

I have 4 wire single phase nearby but the lathe came with a 3 wire whip on it. I need to get an outlet for it, I could change the plug style and whip but that costs a little more. I’m really looking for an actual example of why this is unsafe. What’s the failure mode for this scenario?
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the issue is that you may lose the ground connection, if that happens then the case ground for all equipment on that circuit becomes the neutral return circuit of an active powered circuit and anyone touching the case of this equipment becomes part of the same circuit (ie electrocuted). as others have stated do not do this.
 
RJSakowski said:
OK, here are some hows.

If what was originally proposed by the OP, there would be current flowing through the grounding circuit. However, the resultant voltage drop would be n3gligible. Assuming a 100 watt bulb, the current would be less than an amp. 16AWG wire would have a resistance of 4 milliohms/ ft. If there was a 100 ft of wire running to the bonding point, the voltage drop (RMS) would be .4 volts. A stick welder has an OCV in the neighborhood of 25-30 volts by comparison. 30 volt a.c. is considered the threshold for a lethal voltage. In most situations, 40 to 50 volts is required to be lethal.

If one were to experience a fault where the hot side of the lamp circuit were to contact the grounded frame, the breaker would immediately be tripped upon power up. A fault consisting of a break in the ground circuit would in effect bring the frame of the lathe to line voltage with potentially serious consequences depending upon environment. This would be characterized by the lamp failing to light. A poor ground connection would result in a dim lamp, the extent of which would depend upon the resistance of the connection relative to the resistance of the lamp bulb.
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i agree with all you have said except you forgot that anything else attached to this ground wire would become energized (lathe) also. a 100 watt lamp is close to an amp and that at 120 volts would be deadly.
 
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