Why is the good stuff so expensive?

[projectnut]

I always worry about buying counterfeit on Ebay.
I bought a new Mitutoyo dial indicator for cheap. Once I unwrapped it and gave it a good once over, it was not the real deal.
I do watch Travers specials. They have some good prices from time to time on name brand cutters.
I'll let you know how these KBC end mills perform. It will be a couple weeks before I can get to it.

That's why I only buy from established vendors who aren't willing to risk their reputation. I only buy from vendors based in the US and those that have thousands of sales. I always go with vendors with a 99% or better rating. Even then I check their feedback. You'd be surprised how lame some of the negative feedback is. The lowest rating of any vendor in my "saved" list has a rating of 99.7%. Of the 3 complaints in the last 2,000+ sales one person gave a negative feedback for an antenna they purchased. They didn't do their research and didn't find out until after the fact it wasn't compatible with their WIFI system.

As for measuring tools I also only go with known vendors like Travers and Shars (Discount Machine) I recently bought a Mitutoyo caliper from Travers and it is perfect. Even on sale it wasn't "cheap", but it was well worth the money I spent. Over the years I've bought several things from Shars. In my case I always check their website as well as their online eBay store. More often than not I order from the home website. The prices are less for items on sale, and being in close proximity the shipping is less as well. In the couple times I've had a defective or damaged tool from Shars they've quickly replaced it.

For calipers I have a dial Mitutoyo, a dial Starrett, an electronic Mitutoyo, and half a dozen HF specials in the 6", 8" and 12" sizes. All the HF ones are older and are as accurate as the name brand ones. I use them on the road and in the field where loss damage, or disappearance is a concern. The name brands stay in the shop where there's less chance of loss or damage.

 

[higgite]

Why is the good stuff so expensive?

The first half of that question answers the second half.

Tom

 

[Janderso]

The first half of that question answers the second half.

Tom

Yeah, It's kind of a rhetorical question.

I have to agree, Shars has impressed me. Yes, I'm a hobby guy and don't put my tools through the ringer like you professionals, but their branded products are consistently made to a higher standard than the typical over the pond products. IMHO.

 

[projectnut]

Yeah, It's kind of a rhetorical question.

I have to agree, Shars has impressed me. Yes, I'm a hobby guy and don't put my tools through the ringer like you professionals, but their branded products are consistently made to a higher standard than the typical over the pond products. IMHO.

As an FYI several years ago when I was looking for a surface grinder for the shop a local vendor suggested I take an evening class at our local technical college. He mentioned they had over a dozen different grinders that I should try before making a decision. I took his advise and enrolled one semester.

I did get to use several grinders, and did eventually make a purchase. However one thing that struck me were the tools the school provided for the students. Almost all measuring tools, collets, parallels and other similar tooling was Shars brand. When I asked why I was told that way too many tools were being lost and damaged. At the price Mitutoyo and Starrett was asking the school couldn't afford to replace them. With the lesser expensive Shars tools not only were they loosing les, but the replacement cost for those lost and/or damaged was also less

 

[ddickey]

It is sad to me that a technical school has to buy tools made in Communist China while training people for the trades/manufacturing in the US.

 

[projectnut]

It is sad to me that a technical school has to buy tools made in Communist China while training people for the trades/manufacturing in the US.

Not everything Shars sells is made in China. Many of their cutting tools, tool holding, and work holding tools are made in the US and other countries. Like any business or other non- profit they have to work within a budget. The number 1 need to replace tools and tooling is loss. Essentially that means students, employees or guests had been walking out the door with things in their pockets or back packs. Now with less desirable tools the loss is less than 30% of what it was when the school was providing tooling that was more expensive and more desirable.

 

[darkzero]

I can relate. I took the conventional machining courses at my local college with my little brother when he needed to take the class (I was his ride so I thought might as well & I could learn more myself). He just needed the credit for one semester, I decided to continue on & complete the course. All their machinery & machine accessories were name brand. Most of the lathes were Regal LeBlond, a few Logans, one Hardinge, a huge American Pacemaker, & a Graziano. Vertical mills were mostly Bridgeport put all pretty worn, one Sharp that was very nice, & a brand new Ganesh (China) that no one ever used cause it was always broken down. Horizontal mills were Cincinnatti & I forget but I think the surface grinders were too. Pedestal grinders were all Baldor. Big DoAll vertical & horizontal bandsaws.

Anyways, all the loaner measuring tools (as well as tool bits) were China, I don't even remember seeing brand names on them. Same for most anything else that was loaned out & was small enough to be pocketed. They did have very little Starrett measuring tools as well as Mitutoyo but they rarely got lent out & only to those who have been there for a number of semesters. Same reason, tools walked off or got damaged from students dropping them or whatever. They had a budget which was getting smaller each year.

 

[Buffalo21]

About 5 yrs ago I took an adult ed class, it got the point, where I brought my own lathe tools and end mills to class, as what they had was well past it’s expiration date. 3 months later, they shipped to mills and lathes off to another JC in the system and deleted the class from the ciriculum.

 

[darkzero]

I always worry about buying counterfeit on Ebay.
I bought a new Mitutoyo dial indicator for cheap. Once I unwrapped it and gave it a good once over, it was not the real deal.
I do watch Travers specials. They have some good prices from time to time on name brand cutters.
I'll let you know how these KBC end mills perform. It will be a couple weeks before I can get to it.

Like ttabbal said I don't worry about counterfeit end mills. The thing about counterfeiting is they usually only fake specific items/models that are popular selling items. Otherwise there really is no point for counterfeiting them. They rely on popular items to try & get sales. Copying designs is different.

There are so many different endmills types, sizes, & manufacturers that it doesn't make sense to fake a name brand & style of endmill. Although they do now for carbide inserts so who knows what can happen in the future.

One thing AvE once said that I believe. Chinese HSS end mills are junk (which is usually true) cause they cheap out on the grinding equipment & process. But for carbide end mills they really can't so they often come out pretty good. That is until they figure out how to cheapen that process. Then there are Chinese carbide grades. Chinese carbide inserts are made well but some of their carbide grades & PVD coatings aren't that great. I have tried some, while they do work well they don't last or perform like the quality name brands. But they are decent for a hobbyist & they are so cheap taking the time to swap one out doesn't matter.

I personally haven't tried any Chinese carbide endmills myself. But in relation to what AvE commented, I have tried carbide end mills from various unfamiliar/less familiar (to me) USA brand names and I don't recall ever really being dissatisfied with any of the ones I have tried.

 

[ACHiPo]

I always worry about buying counterfeit on Ebay.
I bought a new Mitutoyo dial indicator for cheap. Once I unwrapped it and gave it a good once over, it was not the real deal.
I do watch Travers specials. They have some good prices from time to time on name brand cutters.
I'll let you know how these KBC end mills perform. It will be a couple weeks before I can get to it.

I share your concern about counterfeits on Ebay, but I've been lucky (or clueless) in my purchases. That being said, I've purchased most of my cutting tools used from retired/expired machinists. I found one guy in Lafayette that was recently retired from Berkeley Livermore Lab (where Tom Lipton works I think?) on CL and bought a bunch of top quality, genuine stuff (Niagra cutters, etc.) I didn't get a screaming deal (20% - 50% of new prices), but I think fair and they work great.