[4]

X2 CNC Conversion

[3]
[10] Like what you see?
Click here to donate to this forum and upgrade your account!

Hawkeye

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
1,885
I've been following OakRidgeGuy's thread on converting his new mill to CNC.

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/9502-I-have-made-the-decision-to-CNC-it!

The timing is perfect, since the CNC bug bit me about a week and a half ago. I'd have sworn I was immune to this disease. All it took was one thought about how you'd need a CNC machine to make some shapes.

I had been thinking that I should probably sell the X2, since the ZX-25 and the 'newer' Victoria U2 were doing all of the work now. It turns out the X2 mini-mill is one of the most commonly converted mills, so there is a lot of information and materials available.

I ordered a set of 4 787 ounce-inch stepper motors with a power supply and control board the day after the obsession began. They arrived from China in good condition today. No directions or manual - just a catalog of more motors. No problem - like I said, there is a lot of information, mostly on fora like this one and some specifically aimed at CNC enthusiasts. BTW, these motors are way more powerful that this mill really needs. They may even work for my ZX-25.

I already downloaded Mach3 and installed it on my old desktop. Like they advise on the Mach3 web site, I'll get it all running to my satisfaction before I buy a license. Until I have that, it will run in demo mode.

I'm still waiting for three ballscrews and nuts and a control pendant made to work with Mach3. The pendant has been committed to the postal system, but there's still no notice of shipping on the ballscrews. Do some eBay orders ship with no notification?

More to come. I have a lot to learn.
 

jumps4

Global Moderator
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
2,236
yes the chinese shipping is their mail and does not start showing up if at all until it is in the U.S. my ballscrews took about 3 or 4 weeks. but everything i have ever ordered has always arrived.
any help with the wiring and setup of your controllers you might need just ask.
post some pics when you can
are you getting a uc100 from cnc4pc?
steve
 

Hawkeye

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
1,885
The control board is a TB6560. It connects directly to the computer and is compatible with Mach3. Can be set for up to 16 microsteps.

I got the torque numbers backwards. It is actually 878. These things are monsters. 3 kg each. 14mm output shafts.
 

jumps4

Global Moderator
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
2,236
can you give me the item number or part number off the motors?
steve
 

Hawkeye

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
1,885
eBay item number is 270753584100

One reason I went for that one was that it was one that included Mach3. I since found out two things: If it is Mach3, it will likely run in demo mode and still need the license (no problem); It isn't Mach3 - It's a Chinese program called HY CNC. I haven't tried running it yet.
 

jumps4

Global Moderator
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
2,236
everything looks good the tb6560 is for mach3 but it will not be licenced i'm sure
i wish i would have found those motors before i did my lathe, only 2amps and 6.4v
i bookmarked that. why, i dont know i'm out of things to cnc right now :lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:
steve
 

jumps4

Global Moderator
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
2,236
mike
i have an affliction i just ordered 3 of those motors and a 36v power supply to fit my tb6560 board....
I have no idea what i'm going to build lol
this is truely a disease
steve
 

Hawkeye

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
1,885
Could always CNC three doorknobs.
 

Kennyd

Active User
Registered
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
478
eBay item number is 270753584100

One reason I went for that one was that it was one that included Mach3. I since found out two things: If it is Mach3, it will likely run in demo mode and still need the license (no problem); It isn't Mach3 - It's a Chinese program called HY CNC. I haven't tried running it yet.
Shipping is $145? :nuts:
 

7HC

Active User
Registered
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
640
Shipping is $145? :nuts:

Just think of it as $466 delivered to your door from China. :))

Pretty reasonable for a four axis driver board, power supply and four big NEMA-34 878 oz stepper motors.

M
 

OakRidgeGuy

Active User
Registered
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
486
yes that is not bad.. I paid 378 for four 23's (425's) and the controllers.. and a piece of junk breakout board..
 

cjsamples

Active User
Registered
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
65
If you have any trouble with the TB6560 board there is a thread on it over on the zone. Some people are getting good results with it and some not. I am pretty sure 878 oz/in is overkill as they probably would run the 45 just fine. Alot of good information on the x2 retro here http://www.hossmachine.info/cnc_conversion.html

He used 381 oz.in steppers and he has basically posted a step by step walk thru of the whole process. Lots of drawings with measurements as well. Might be worth a look.

I went with 381's from Keling for my router and the numbers look alot different on the Inductance. Apparently Inductance along with Voltage gives a motor power output formula. From the Gecko site:

The motor power output (speed times torque) is determined by the power supply voltage and
the motor’s inductance. The motor’s output power is proportional to the power supply voltage divided
by the square root of the motor inductance.

The 878 math is Motor inductance (15 square root is 3.872) Going to use Stepper rated voltage of 6.4 first = 1.653 Using the 24 Volt PS = 6.198
On the Keling 381 inductance is 2.8( Square root is 1.673) Stepper Rated Voltage is 2.55 first = 1.524 Using the 48 Volt PS = 28.69

Gecko says this is a Power output number and alot of guys say that Voltage is speed, from the math it looks like it is power too. I think the high inductance number is why some of the import steppers get a bad rap.

The resistance numbers are alot different as well and I bet that will be shown as heat.

I placed my order last week for Keling equipment and it came up to $506 shipped, Ordered Monday and had it Thursday. I spent an extra $100 on a breakout board upgrade, C11 , the c10 is less than $30 so you could take $100 off the total. 48 Volt PS 7.3 amps, KL6050 drivers for the 48 Volt PS, 381 3.5 amp steppers, C11 board.

From Gecko's numbers the motor power output should be 4 almost 5 times higher, but this is just for a router.

Please don't take this the wrong way as I have always wondered why some of the import steppers get bashed on some of the forums. I had chalked it up to pros, the support locals, and people in general not wanting to buy overseas. I buy from China on a weekly basis. Proximity switches are on the boat, I hope I hope. I took a look at your post, followed the link and wanted to see where the difference was. I think I learned alot from doing some reading and some googling. I hope I have read things right, maybe the more experienced guys can chime in if my logic is flawed.

I had almost ordered a kit much like yours Friday or Saturday night and decided I wanted to start adding things to the cart and see what the cost difference was. It was close enough to buy on this side of the pond and be able to call and ***** if something didn't work. We all like to be able to do that right???

I fell into, and I really mean FELL into a hell of a deal on a CNC router needing new electronics. 4X5+ table with router for less than $350. DAMN craigslist!! Figured I wanted to retro and had the money and time to run with it.

I will be making a thread about it as well as this is my first project under cnc control. I know I will have LOTS of questions.

Chris
 

Hawkeye

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
1,885
Yesterday, I got the cables soldered up for the motors and connected the system to the computer. I followed the setup video, but couldn't get the motors to move. For that matter, the G-code file I typed in wouldn't run after the third line. The first two lines were setup info. The third line was the first command line and the DROs wouldn't advance. I tried changing motor and port settings all evenings, but nothing helped.

This morning, I booted up the system and checked the syntax in the file again. Nothing looked out of place, so I hit Run. It Ran. I guess it just needed the old Microsoft solution - reboot and try again.

More time on motor tuning got them running smoothly. I can set the feedrate from 25 IPM down to 5 and get smooth operation from the motors, but any faster, including a G0 command (rapid traverse) and the motors may not even move.

I've tried opening dxf files in Lazycam, but they always end up empty. Still working on the learning curve.
 

DMS

Active User
Registered
Joined
Aug 5, 2011
Messages
1,567
You may play with your acceleration, Sometimes that is what is keeping you from achieving higher feed rates. 25IPM is plenty fast for cutting, but you're probably gonna want faster rapids. Sounds like you are making good progress though.
 

jumps4

Global Moderator
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
2,236
good deal mike
the motors not running the first time always happens after the install and setup you have to power down and restart.
i forget everytime. what do you have your micro steps set to on the board and amp setting?
also if your mach3 is demo you cant set kernel speed over 25000hz.
if you would like some help pm me and i'll give you my phone number it's easier.
steve
 

Hawkeye

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
1,885
I found this thread on CNCZone, dealing with the control board I'm using.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general_electronics_discussion/110986-how_i_fixed_my_chinese.html

This guy went to all the trouble of drawing up a schematic by reverse engineering from his board. He found a couple of design errors and documents how he fixed them. This was done about two years ago. I need to go over my board and see if the manufacturers ever fixed it. There's no version or revision number showing on the boards.

I picked up a 12x12x4 junction box at the wholesaler today. This will have enough room to mount the power supply, control board, a 5" cooling fan, and an E-stop and power switch.
 

jumps4

Global Moderator
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
2,236
i have purchased and installed 1. 3axis and 2. 4 axis tb6560 boards without a problem.
steve
 

Hawkeye

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
1,885
The pendant arrived today. No 'manual' of any kind. Steve, your comment on setting the hotkeys got it going. Thanks.

I called FedEx today and asked them to hold my ballscrews for pickup tomorrow. Things are really coming together.
 

OakRidgeGuy

Active User
Registered
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
486
Looking forward to seeing it all in action.. got a message today that my motors and controllers are in route!
 

Hawkeye

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
1,885
I picked up the ballscrews today at FedEx. The young lady looked at my name and asked if I was related to David Fxxxxx. I replied that he was my son. She introduced herself as David's girlfriend's sister. Small world, but cool.

<Back on topic>
I wasn't surprised to find that the ballscrews were just cut lengths - no bearing surface or threads on the business end. They weren't specific lengths. In fact, the longest piece (1050 mm) is long enough to use for all three axes. Hopefully, they aren't hardened. A file does cut the steel, but not like soft steel.

I tried a bit of cutting on the lathe. It is possible with carbide inserts, but I'll have to be gentle, considering the interrupted cuts involved with turning a threaded rod. Lots of fun dialing in a threaded rod in the four-jaw. One strip of pop can under the jaws, one strip riding on top between the shaft and the dial tip to average it out.
 

DMS

Active User
Registered
Joined
Aug 5, 2011
Messages
1,567
Be wary. You want to align the races, and not the outside surface of the screw. Some tips I have heard are to wrap wire (copper or aluminum) around in the root and use a collet to hold. I have also heard of people using a DTI and setting the lead screw up to thread the same TPI as the ball screw. Put the tip of the DTI in the toot of the screw, and check alignment that way (with the carriage driven by the lead screw).

I was playing around with cut off piece of screw left over from my quill conversion (to see if I could actually turn the stuff). It worked pretty well with carbide. I took light cuts. I also found that cranking the speed _way_ up (I was running at about 2500 rpm) worked well. Wear a face shield, as you can very easily get yellow hot chips. Once I was through the crusty outer layer, the inside was soft, though it did not machine really well, kind of like frozen pre-owned bubblegum.
 

Hawkeye

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
1,885
DMS,

Good suggestion on the wire wrap. Maybe #10 copper. I don't have through-collets, so dialing in will be required.

I've never tried machining frozen pre-owned bubblegum. Could make good seals for something. :thinking:
 

7HC

Active User
Registered
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
640
DMS,



I've never tried machining frozen pre-owned bubblegum. Could make good seals for something. :thinking:
Free samples to practice on can often be found on the underside of bench seats and tables at cafes. ;)


M
 

Hawkeye

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
1,885
Ah, yes ... recycling.

There are so many projects within this project that I need to pick one and finish it off. I started turning down the Y-axis screw today. I figured I should check the runout on the bottom of the races before I took it out of the chuck. As DMS suggested, the DI was set up to travel with the carriage. TIR turned out to be only 0.002", so no more fiddling needed. The couplings I'm going to make can handle that amount.

I need to pick up an M12 x 1.25 die. I got some metric nuts today, but my sets don't have anything that fine. 1.25 mm pitch is 20.32 TPI, so I started by single-pointing the threaded portion to 20 TPI and will chase it with the die.

Tonight, I need to make a two-stage voltage regulator to drop the 25 VDC output of the power supply to 12 volts to run the two cooling fans. I'm adding a 4 1/2" fan in the cover of the box and I might as well run the small one on the board from the same supply to take a bit of load off the on-board supply. Then I can drill and tap to mount the fan supply and the main power supply. After that, I can assemble the control cabinet.
 

jumps4

Global Moderator
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
2,236
it sounds like your making good progress
steve
 

Hawkeye

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
1,885
I downloaded D2NC and played with it a bit. Right now, my motors are slowly tracing out an adjusting lever for my cutter grinder. Too bad they're not attached to the mill.

I can see that I'm going to have to increase the length of my Y-axis sometime in the near future. This stuff is addictive, and I haven't even started to make chips with it yet.
 

Hawkeye

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
1,885
I think I'm okay as far as a lathe is concerned. But then, that's what I thought about CNC in general. :thinking:

I've gotten this far without pictures, but I think the mods are getting ready to revoke my parking pass. I got the control box done today. The setup has been running the adjusting lever for about an hour and the fan on the power supply hasn't come on yet. The big fan I put in the control box is doing it's job.
PC090664a.jpg

A 12 x 12 junction box is just the right size for the power supply and control board, with a bit of room for small extras. The white terminal strip at the bottom will handle the connections for the homing switches.
PC090662a.jpg

You can see how big the stepper motors are. Overkill for sure, but workable. The pendant is a nice addition.
PC090665a.jpg

PC090664a.jpg PC090662a.jpg PC090665a.jpg
 

cjsamples

Active User
Registered
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
65
Nice clean installation in that box. I can never find good deals on those boxes when I need one.

Chris
 
[5] [7]
Top