Advice on Which Brand to Choose

Thanks to everyone for all the input.

Firstly, to answer mathewsx: I have no particular projects in mind - I just like to tinker. I have an LMS 4700 micro mill and now I need something with greater capacity as it is too small for whatever it is I'm doing 90% of the time.

The main drive behind a round column mill was the expectation of quality, which I've learned can no longer be expected. I also liked that they appear to be heavier than other machines. The issues with the round column and tram don't bother me but I've also never operated one. Is there a consensus what model year the quality of these machines went down hill?

Buying new is unfortunately critical. I work construction and travel constantly with no schedule so machine needs to be delivered when I'm home. Of course I always check Craigslist or search ebay within a radius of wherever I happen to be regularly though.

Precision Mathews is already on my radar. And I think the 727V (maybe 30MV?) is probably what I'll go with unless I find something better before December when I plan on making an order.

As far as an old Bridgeport goes, that would be great but I've never seen one decent shape for less than 4k and it would likely be too tall for my basement anyways.
 
StudioMachinist said:
Thanks to everyone for all the input.

Firstly, to answer mathewsx: I have no particular projects in mind - I just like to tinker. I have an LMS 4700 micro mill and now I need something with greater capacity as it is too small for whatever it is I'm doing 90% of the time.

The main drive behind a round column mill was the expectation of quality, which I've learned can no longer be expected. I also liked that they appear to be heavier than other machines. The issues with the round column and tram don't bother me but I've also never operated one. Is there a consensus what model year the quality of these machines went down hill?

Buying new is unfortunately critical. I work construction and travel constantly with no schedule so machine needs to be delivered when I'm home. Of course I always check Craigslist or search ebay within a radius of wherever I happen to be regularly though.

Precision Mathews is already on my radar. And I think the 727V (maybe 30MV?) is probably what I'll go with unless I find something better before December when I plan on making an order.

As far as an old Bridgeport goes, that would be great but I've never seen one decent shape for less than 4k and it would likely be too tall for my basement anyways.
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I made extensive modification to my round column mill to try and maintain tram. Comparing it to my current mill is night and day. While the new mill is lighter which is generally considered bad, the benefit of being able to easily raise the head, swap out tooling and lower it again into the exact location is significant.
Something else that hasn't been mentioned is that a lot of the square column bench mills have a gas pressure cylinder in the column which make cranking the head up a breeze. On my RF mill, cranking the head up was significant effort because there was no assist and the head probably weighs over 120-150 lbs. I weighed my motor and it was 45 lbs.

As far as dates go, Taiwanese made tends to be a cut above.
 
I'd say either of those PM machines would be a good choice and a league better than what you have now. Of course the 30MV looks a little nicer so if you could...
To be clear, I don't own any PM machines but over the 9 years I have been here on HM, I have heard mostly praise about the machines and the company, more good things than any other vendor of new machines.
 
StudioMachinist said:
Thanks to everyone for all the input.

Firstly, to answer mathewsx: I have no particular projects in mind - I just like to tinker. I have an LMS 4700 micro mill and now I need something with greater capacity as it is too small for whatever it is I'm doing 90% of the time.

The main drive behind a round column mill was the expectation of quality, which I've learned can no longer be expected. I also liked that they appear to be heavier than other machines. The issues with the round column and tram don't bother me but I've also never operated one. Is there a consensus what model year the quality of these machines went down hill?

Buying new is unfortunately critical. I work construction and travel constantly with no schedule so machine needs to be delivered when I'm home. Of course I always check Craigslist or search ebay within a radius of wherever I happen to be regularly though.

Precision Mathews is already on my radar. And I think the 727V (maybe 30MV?) is probably what I'll go with unless I find something better before December when I plan on making an order.

As far as an old Bridgeport goes, that would be great but I've never seen one decent shape for less than 4k and it would likely be too tall for my basement anyways.
Click to expand...
Cool, I can understand the limitations of having to work for a living. As to getting machines into basement shops there are a ton of threads about that on here so if that's where it's going you should be able to get some ideas.

If you're in construction try asking around to your clients, they may have something, or leads on something good used. Assume construction gives you access to trucks, trailers and forklifts or skid steers?

If you have the cash to buy new, and some time to look I'd definitely consider used. Lots of hobby grade stuff is lightly used and comes with the advantage of extra tooling, vises, material, etc. Since you have the little mill you should have enough experience to evaluate a bigger machine and you can always ask here if you have questions.

I had a round column mill and while it was alright I never thought it would be the last machine I'd buy. I found a 3/4 size Bridgeport clone that's as big I can fit in my space and will probably keep it indefinitely. Luckily I bought the RF30 pretty cheap and ended up making a small profit when I sold it.

Remember, time is your friend here. Keep your eyes and mind open, and some cash in your pocket. You're bound to find something good, if not just place your order....

John
 
matthewsx said:
I had a round column mill for a short time and jumped at the chance to get a knee mill. World of difference.
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But then there are people like me. I ran a couple knee mills including a Bridgeport for about 15 years at work, but when I retired I needed a benchtop due to how small my home shop is. Tricky basement to lower heavy iron into, and zero free floor space. If you offered me a knee mill for free, I'd have to pass.

For all the complaining about round columns I hear, I guess I should hate it, but it does what I need. I know the limitations and some tricks to work around them. Since I have my mill, I don't shop around, so I don't know what's out there for sale these days. But when I bought mine, there was no way to get this much mass per dollar in a benchtop. A dovetail will always be lighter at the same price point, right? Or has that changed?
 
I understand there are many choices and it can be very difficult to decide.
I know of one used bench mill for sale but not listed on the market, I never inquired on price.
But just for grins here is a link to a machinery dealer with several used Bridgeports in the 2500-3500 range.
They will wire the unit in and let you check it out.
Myself and many other forum members would be willing to help you inspect a machine within a reasonable distance.
You have many options and that can make it harder to decide .
Good luck and enjoy whatever you buy, that is what it is all about.
 
bulgie said:
I think Grizzly tells you the country of origin if you ask, but the answer is practically always China. How they can get away with not including that info on the webpage is a mystery. Apparently, it's legal, but still more than a bit sleazy.
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This is a bit of a tangent, but still relates here... My hat's off to ANYONE who cares where their stuff comes from.

The labeling laws regarding this were written in the nineteen forties, maybe the thirties. WAY before "modern" commerce. There have been a few things added over time, but the body of the law predates Al Gore inventing the internet by a couple of generations. With RARE exception, the product or it's packaging must disclose the country of origin to the original purchaser/end user. That's literally all they have to do, is mold, stamp, sticker, print, or otherwise put the marking where you can clearly see it from the outside of the package as purchased.

I don't think it's "sleazy" that it's so hard to find that clearly defined in advertising. Occham's Razor sorts it right out. It's not required, and generally speaking, Americans don't care. Grizzly is pretty small, relatively speaking, but if you took some larger entity like Amazon, a quick back of the envelope calculation on my part says that if they had to add a COO to each of their listings, or verify that it was already there (a lot of them are), but if it were to be law, and they had to spend three minutes each to update every listing, they're looking at a little over a half a billion dollars of investment ONLY in the unskilled labor. Forget about keeping up with it or enforcing it. I don't know about you, but I'd need to see a reason to lay down half a billion dollars.

Kudos to you, and anyone else who gives a crap, for giving a crap.
 
The round column mills can be perfectly serviceable, but I'd only consider one if bought used at a good price.

At the prices they sell for new you are well into the prices of a decent size quality square column bench mill like the PM30 or 728T.

If you can get one used for $1000 or so, I can certainly see putting up with their limitations, but not when paying $2500-3000.
 
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