Sb 10 X 24 Hd Tool Room Lathe Q's

[kennyv]

Large spindle taper is a 4.5 MT is I'm correct, proprietary to South Bend. Look on eBay.

On your machine it looks like someone tried to pry up one of the bearing caps without removing the expamder screws, especially on the rear bearing. make sure your expanders aren't pulling through the sleeve when tightening them.

not sure i see what you saw .. can ya explain ?

If you pull the spindle, flush the oil pots/reserviors and either clean the existing wicks or get new ones. Make sure the springs aren't broken and the wicks are not only wicking oil but is contacting the spindle itself. Since the expanders stick with the spindle on removal, you have to line the hole in the bottom of the sleeves with the wick when putting the spindle back. There is a trick to doing that but I forget it at the moment.

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     Now i did not plan on anytime soon pulling spindle everything is running nice and smooth from what i read saw and tested no need to add take away and shims for the spindle bearings. Note after i readjusted them correctly there is zero runout .
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     What id like to ask follow up to something you mentioned bout the wicks and filler cups how can i make sure the spindle bearings are getting properly lubricated ? thanks

 

[kennyv]

I also noticed in your photos you checked spindle runout using the thread protector? You may want to test using the spindle bore, as this is what matters when it comes to runout. Any exterior surface does not affect the alignment of work.

Did you perform a lift test as per the South Bend manual?

Btw I checked TIR every which way inside diam spindle bore ect.......she is dead nutz zero after readjustment .
Na didn't do a SB test at the time (recently read about that one tho ) However I did a test an ole timer gave me ( fulcrum test under heavy load) here is exert from my original post

Took readings prior and after the adjustments . After reassembly and adjustments she was . �Dead Nuts� , �Spot on� as Sr. used to say � BULOVA � and ill say she is �****� No spindle run out . None Nata That puppy is running so smooth the indicator needle is barely vibrating. Than I proceeded to do fulcrum test and got about . 0005 run out . Im ok with that for now. Jmho no reason to make things too tight and create excessive ware.

 

[Andre]

On SB bronze sleeve bearings, there is a bearing cap then the brass expanders. If you don't remove the screws holding the expanders before lifting the bearing cap the brass wedge expanders will pull through the sleeve. It's not supposed to pull straight up, it's meant to slide out the side. If everything is working fine your in the clear.

Do you mean zero runout or zero flex in the spindle? There should be around .0012" flex in the spindle, enough for a theoretical .0006" constant oil film around the spindle. If it doesn't flex at all, you need to loosen the bearing caps a little. You test flex by inserting a broomstick into the spindle, then 12" out from the spindle nose pull up with 75 pounds of pressure. With your dial indicator on the spindle nose, it should read .0012" or so. Do the same for the rear bearing, then snug up your thrust bearing.

 

[Andre]

I just saw your second post, if you have .0005" flex in the spindle things are too tight. If you meant .005" flex, the you need to tighten things down.

Tightening the bearing cap might sound like it will receive excess wear, but you need a tighter clearance than that to get your *Perfect* hydrostatic oil film. In a perfect world, bronze bearings when properly lubricated and adjusted never wear when running, only on startup/rundown. Same with babbitt. In the real world you won't get everything perfect, but the closet you get the better.

Too tight or too loose bearing cap prevents the ideal hydrostatic film from taking place, and causes wear. From what I understand, .0012" flex using SB's test is ideal.

 

[kennyv]

Do you mean zero runout or zero flex in the spindle? There should be around .0012" flex in the spindle, enough for a theoretical .0006" constant oil film around the spindle. If it doesn't flex at all, you need to loosen the bearing caps a little. You test flex by inserting a broomstick into the spindle, then 12" out from the spindle nose pull up with 75 pounds of pressure. With your dial indicator on the spindle nose, it should read .0012" or so. Do the same for the rear bearing, then snug up your thrust bearing.

Too tight or too loose bearing cap prevents the ideal hydrostatic film from taking place, and causes wear. From what I understand, .0012" flex using SB's test is ideal.[/QUOTE]

thanks for details yea I meant zero spindle run out , and . 0005 run out with fulcrum test
test with block of wood and that is with 4' crow bar with bout #75-125 lbs yes I did read about SB broom stick method after I performed dialing in and fulcrum test . my guess ill have darn near close .0012 total run out and ill be fine wheres shes at to have ideal hydrostatic film

the thing I had in question was the oiler cups for spindle I though you were referring to the whicking .
One Q I have is how do you know if you do have proper whicking in the oiler cups is ther any way to tell if the spindle bearings are getting properly lubricated ? thanks

 

[Andre]

The oiler cups lead to a large internal reservoir, then there are spring loaded wicks inside the reservoir that push against the bottom of the spindle. Remove the top bearing cap, expander, and center felt block. Turning the spindle by hand you should see a constant oil film around the spindle, if it is not wet all the time when spinning by hand something is not right.

With the bearing caps on and adjusted, the spindle should still turn freely by hand.

 

[kennyv]

THANKS i think i may want to take all apart clean and re adjust to have a piece of mind that my oiler holes are clear and the spindle bearings are getting properly lubricated .

i do have a further Q if ya dont mind thanks

i am confident the spindle is running true however i noticed last night in a drilling op that i may have end play on the spindle shaft. . How much end play is acceptable once the spindle bearings are running true?



according to the maintain procedure i am using this (scroll down to 4-5-65) SB 10 heavy lathe
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1617/3463.pdf


it is saying to have 3/8 circular measurement B/T the take up nut and thrust bearing Can you please explain little better the adjustment procedure and what is correct end play thanks

also once i have this all apart cleaned ect....... will i be able to re use put back the spring loaded wicks?

thanks so much Andre i appreciate sharing your knowledge. Again i guess if i go through the trouble of taking apart , checking readjusting and maintaining ill have peace of mind on my brand new used machine.

Kind regards
Kenny V

 

[dlane]

When I refurbished my heavy ten I replaced all the felt wicks in machine. You can get just the
spindle wicks on eBay they are not expensive, mine were pretty crusty. I would flush out the reservoir
While your at it for piece of mind. I was able to turn oil cup cw just enough to remove top plug for cleaning and wire insertion to hold down wick during reassembly and then turn back up, it dosn't leek.
I set my end play to .001, but I upgraded to outboard roller bearings.
Hope this helps

 

[kennyv]

Hey Guys did some maint on my lathe over the weekend adjusted the clutch for carriage feed/ cross feed . Re- adjusted the take up nut correctly no more end play in spindle .

I already had adjusted my spindle bearings however want to take all apart again to make sure she is oiling correctly . that i will next before i do any projects on the lathe . Thanks all again for your help . THANKS ANDRE ....... Makes allot of sense in the info u had shared . next ill re adjust spindle bearings again this time i will check/ make sure the bearing are getting constant oil film . If not guess ill remove spindle and change the capillary oilers .

 

[kennyv]

Hey guys quick update , first id like to thank you for all the help . Spent some time re adjusting spindle bearings this time making sure the bearing were getting sufficient oil. And now of course ideal hydrostatic film from taking place upon the bearing and spindle.
Btw just acquired the lathe a few months back upon bringing home did take F/R spindle bearings caps apart once cleaned and flushed oil tubes. She seemed to work fine w/ front rear spindle test ( as per SB recommendation) with in .0015-.002 . However I suspected something wasn't right bc the front bearing was getting warm. So last week I took her all apart again to re inspect re adjust. Well I got myself in lil trouble after taking apart re cleaning everything as I was not able to get spindle to turn freely without a drag now . Note : (This time I did nothing) Did not take any shims out /add change O boy spent some time installing/ re installing bearing caps,cleaning everything . Note : ( Yes each time removing expander screws before bearing cap screws ) . AND opposite order for reinstalling. Long story short had to remove the spindle assembly . Yea had to peek too, ; ) wanted to inspect spindle bearing surfaces,see what shape the oilers were in.

Well upon inspection noticed spindle was remarkable , the rear oilier was fine but the front side was smutzed a bit , lil goopy prob from siting so long . . Here is what I did to get out of trouble. Cleaned the top of felt a bit ,expanded the spring some. Flushed out all oil tubes breathers ect .

Cleaned EVERY THING upon re Assembly . This time re installed spindle F/R bearing caps with better luck . However Took 2-3 attempts to get spindle to move freely upon adjustments . Finally had success by lifting up gently on spindle bearing as I hand tighten tightened the screws . Check /re check.

Than proceeded to snug bearing caps , check spindle to rotate without drag. When I was able to torque tight while spindle freely rotated . believed I had bearings in proper position . Than I was able to properly adjust bearing expander screws . Re checked spindle run out F/R readjusted to be within .001-.002 and bata bing all set. As far as shim did NOTHING on the large bearing however took a .001 shim out of rear w/ about .0025-.003 .lift test ( ill leave it that way for now) than readjusted take up nut and was done .
This ordeal was fun, It all makes sense now after going though the process/ learning about how the south bend bearings are properly adjusted. Now I see these bearings are very well designed . At first I did not like em . After first adjustment I liked em But. than than after having issues didn't like em. In the end the entire process /adjustments maintenance I see in fact they they are an excellent design . A little tedious tho , but when ya have it right you get good results . I think now ill be ok ill see how she performs next week or so. In the near future I ll get new felt oilers rinse and repeat again. Hopefully ill be ok with these bearings for some time before needing to replace em. Thanks again for all your help.