My First Lathe - HF 9" x 20"

Lecture away!! I am learning!

For the gauges... Is this kit good to cover them all? 6 Pieces Stainless Steel Screw Thread Pitch Cutting Gauge Tool Set, 3 Pieces Center Gage, 1 America Type, 1 Metric America Type, 1 Metric Imperial US for Industrial Measurement

Thread Gauges.jpg


And found a copy of the 11th Edition (1943) for the Machinery's Handbook. Placing the order now. Was only 27.00 with free shipping.

Machinery’s Handbook.jpg
 
Sometime in the 1990s, Grizzly changed vendors. The earlier model was G-1550, which is what I have. When they changed over, the new part number was G-4000. They are essentially the same machine, the G-1550 having a 1-1/2X8 TPI spindle nose and the G-4000 having the M39X4. There are some minor differences, fasteners being Imperial versus Metric, things of that nature. That and the source, the G-1550 being made in Taiwan and the G-4000 made in Mainland China.
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I wonder if country of origin is the deciding factor between metric or standard. I understand the older Enco were made in Taiwan which was a big part of the reason I gave in and snapped up the one I have, only to find out it was made in China after I got there. It was still a good deal and I had driven a whole 30 minutes to look at it so it came home with me anyway.

Mine is a 1994 so may have been shortly after they changed suppliers. As far as I know the Jet 9x19 is still made in Taiwan and has the 1-1/2"-8 thread.

The older Jet was the BD-920, the current version is the BDB-919 and has some improvements over the common 9x19 lathe. They also now offer a lengthened BDB-929 which adds another 10". The Jet lathes may be better but they are now 2x the price of a Grizzly G4000.


Another place where there is some confusion is 9x19 and 9x20, apparently the only difference is whether the lathe is sold with a dead center or live center. A dead center is shorter by about an inch...
 
Another place where there is some confusion is 9x19 and 9x20, apparently the only difference is whether the lathe is sold with a dead center or live center. A dead center is shorter by about an inch...

You answered a question I had... I would look at both and they looked identical... could not figure out why one was 9x19 and the other 9x20... Now I know... cool.
 
Lecture away!! I am learning!

For the gauges... Is this kit good to cover them all? 6 Pieces Stainless Steel Screw Thread Pitch Cutting Gauge Tool Set, 3 Pieces Center Gage, 1 America Type, 1 Metric America Type, 1 Metric Imperial US for Industrial Measurement

View attachment 378802

And found a copy of the 11th Edition (1943) for the Machinery's Handbook. Placing the order now. Was only 27.00 with free shipping.

View attachment 378803

I think the older MH are better for most hobbyists unless you are heavily into CNC. The older editions have more info on doing things with the kind of equipment typical hobbyists have available to them. Some of this material was removed from newer books to make room for new stuff like CNC and the metric system. You will find some metalsmithing information in your 1940s edition that was removed from the more current editions.

Editions prior to the 1970s only have a trace amount of metric info, basically just conversion tables. The later editions add a bunch of tables for metric threads and such which are not in the older books.

I have a 1992 and a 1954, and while there is a large degree of overlap, there is enough unique material to make owning both worthwhile. I'd still like to get a really early one something in the 1914-1920s range which has more on flat belts and other very early machine / tooling specific material.


If you can find it there is also a smaller guide to the handbook which helps to explain how to use all of this stuff. Ideally you want one matched to the edition you have but if you can't find that, it should still be usable, just perhaps a bit more work as it may not completely match up with the page references.

MH 14.jpg



One advantage to the more recent editions is they now offer large text, which is helpful for older eyes.
 
You answered a question I had... I would look at both and they looked identical... could not figure out why one was 9x19 and the other 9x20... Now I know... cool.

Typical marketing, hey we gave you a cheaper center so we will tell you it is a bigger lathe. :D
 
I think the older MH are better for most hobbyists unless you are heavily into CNC. The older editions have more info on doing things with the kind of equipment typical hobbyists have available to them. Some of this material was removed from newer books to make room for new stuff like CNC and the metric system. You will find some metalsmithing information in your 1940s edition that was removed from the more current editions.

Editions prior to the 1970s only have a trace amount of metric info, basically just conversion tables. The later editions add a bunch of tables for metric threads and such which are not in the older books.

I have a 1992 and a 1954, and while there is a large degree of overlap, there is enough unique material to make owning both worthwhile. I'd still like to get a really early one something in the 1914-1920s range which has more on flat belts and other very early machine / tooling specific material.


If you can find it there is also a smaller guide to the handbook which helps to explain how to use all of this stuff. Ideally you want one matched to the edition you have but if you can't find that, it should still be usable, just perhaps a bit more work as it may not completely match up with the page references.

View attachment 378808


One advantage to the more recent editions is they now offer large text, which is helpful for older eyes.

I had not hit buy... let me see if I can find a matching set...
 
Found the Machinery’s Handbook 13th edition 1946 printing and also a 13th edition of The Use of Handbook Tables and Formulas - Based on Machinery's Handbook - 13th - Done!

Machinery’s Handbook 13th Edition.jpg


The Use of Handbook Tables and Formulas-Cover.jpg

The Use of Handbook Tables and Formulas.jpg
 
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Lecture away!! I am learning!

For the gauges... Is this kit good to cover them all? 6 Pieces Stainless Steel Screw Thread Pitch Cutting Gauge Tool Set, 3 Pieces Center Gage, 1 America Type, 1 Metric America Type, 1 Metric Imperial US for Industrial Measurement

View attachment 378802

And found a copy of the 11th Edition (1943) for the Machinery's Handbook. Placing the order now. Was only 27.00 with free shipping.

View attachment 378803
First off, the guages: The triangular device is fine for Imperial threads. It can be used to determine pitch of Whitworth threads but will show gaps where it is 60 degree and Whitworth is 55 degrees. The two smaller guages are both Metric. They will be 60 degrees and in most cases will determine thread pitch fine. The "flat" guages are called colloquially "fish tails". I don't know the proper name but fish tails is well known in both the hobby and professional arenas. They are guages for use in grinding threading tools and setting up threading tools on the lathe.

Threading is generally done with the compound set to 29 degrees so that most of the work takes place on one side of the tool. It can be done straight in but each pass will be smaller, 0.005 vs 0.010 inch. It is mostly a matter of skill level as to just how deep. The first pass, called a "scratch" pass, is just deep enough to scratch the surface. That is then checked to verify that you are indeed cutting the desired pitch.

Once the compound is set up, the actual tool must be set to 90 degrees to the chuck. The notches in the fish tail guage come into play here. The guage is held against the work to be threaded and the tool comes into the notch. When it is properly aligned, the tool will fill the notch with no gap on either side. The fish tails are not really pitch guages, but are a necessity when setting up threading. Once you "get used" to the odd shape, they make good squares for small work as well as other uses.

As regards "Machinery's Handbook", the book is a "bible" of machining information. The copy you have shown is a good range, containing a little, but not all current, metric information. There is some toss-up about the usefulness of a guide. It is indeed handy for the occasional user but is not a requirement. Think of "Encyclopedia Brittanica", would you need a "guide" for that, or just dive in and prowl? Machinery's Handbook equates to the encyclopedia in that respect.

Most copies come from estates of old school machinists that didn't need a guide. They knew what they were looking for. And book sellers on eBay may know books but not necessarily machinery. The listed price seems a little high, but not overly so. Things are getting more expensive lately. I would say to go for it. If you should stumble over the guide book, it might be a good purchase. Or not, that is a personal call. The Handbook is the big issue.

I have several copies of the Handbook, but don't have a Guide. I am not a machinist by trade, I am was an industrial electrician. A master of my craft long ago, not so much today. I used Machinery's Handbook almost as much for electrical work as for mechanical work. A guide never entered into the equation. An example is EC&M controls, before being bought out by Sq D. There were many "custom" threads in use where a 60 degree thread form was not suitable to the situation. This is where the Handbook becomes useful.

I won't say that higher IQ comes into play, but those that need the Guide are, to me, wannabes to the craft. They aren't so much a machinist as someone that wants to be called one. I'll leave the final call to your discretion as you become more experienced. I am a master of my craft of old, I don't need to be called something else.

EDIT: If you flip over the smaller, Metric guages, you may find that they also work for Whitworth. That guage looks mightly familiar.

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I won't say that higher IQ comes into play, but those that need the Guide are, to me, wannabes to the craft. They aren't so much a machinist as someone that wants to be called one. I'll leave the final call to your discretion as you become more experienced. I am a master of my craft of old, I don't need to be called something else.

For someone trying to learn this from the internet, I have found the guide handy. Trying to read the Handbook cold can be like reading something in Spanish. I can muddle through with my high school Spanish enough to figure out the meaning but it is a lot easier when it is already in English.

I have no illusions of being a machinist, I'm just a guy using machine tools to make stuff. I frequently have to resort to books, youtube videos or asking questions to do anything of any significant complexity.
 
As far as a four(4) jaw chuck goes, I learned on a four jaw 'way back when. The 4 jaw is still my preference for any "precision" work, although I mostly use the 3 jaw. My 4 jaw came from Grizzly without a backing plate. I had to make one to fit. The big advantage there is that when you go to a different machine, the backing plate is the only change. Mine is a 5 inch, a 6 inch would have been better but the 5 inch costed less. For a novice, the 4 jaw will require you learn to mount the work. Well worth the effort, but not critical. The 3 jaw will serve you well until you learn to do serious work. I would say to put a 4 jaw on the options list and keep it near the top. Had I had a 3 jaw early on, I would have used it more. But learning on the 4 jaw has paid off from time to time.

So a 6" 4-jaws independent chuck will be the way to go? The difference in price (for the ones I am looking at) is 40.00 more for the 6" over the 5"...

Too bad those 4-jaws combination chucks are so expensive... one of those would have been nice... focus, man! focus!! You have another lathe coming...
 
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