[4]

12z Update And Status After A Year.

[3]
[10] Like what you see?
Click here to donate to this forum and upgrade your account!

tmarks11

Active User
Registered
Joined
Aug 12, 2013
Messages
858
Likes
185
#31
That is always the achilles heal when folks start converting a machine to cnc... unless they start with two machines, at some point all you have is a pile of parts. You always need a manual machine standing by, even if you purchase a "complete kit", since the manufacturing variances on the smaller chinese mills invariably means machining is required.

You mentioned "handle modifications" before. My understanding of one of the reasons you usually don't use ballscrews on a manual machine is that the ballnut friction is low enough that you can actually rotate the leadscrew by pushing on the table (never a problem with a normal acme screw). That means you have to lock the handle in place to keep the axis from moving while machining.

How does this work?
 

wrmiller

Chief Tinkerer
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
3,386
Likes
1,367
#32
So true. I have had enough situations where a second machine saved a situation that when I move, if I have sufficient room I will likely keep El Hefe even if I do get a LMV-42.

Paul at CO was telling me that the ball screw conversion on these mills is becoming so popular that they now have a modified ball screw kit just for their manual machines. And according to him, none of his customers are complaining about the table moving, but I will have the table/saddle locks cinched down just in case as I do now for any cut more than a inch or so in length.

If the table/saddle locks are insufficient for heavier cuts, I have a idea of how I can use a quick release shaft clamp of my own design, similar to a Ruland quick clamping shaft collar. I'm a bit concerned about longevity with the Rulands because they are aluminum, but may try those to see how they hold up.
 
Last edited:

coolidge

Active User
Registered
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
2,005
Likes
845
#33
Look at all the cool shiny components :encourage:
 

wrmiller

Chief Tinkerer
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
3,386
Likes
1,367
#34
Used the Foredom and a carbide burr to dig out a relief for the ball screw nose. We're making progress now. Next is to center the screw in the saddle and drill and tap the extra holes.
IMG_0626.jpg
 

wrmiller

Chief Tinkerer
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
3,386
Likes
1,367
#35
More progress. Got the Y-axis ball nut mounted to the bottom of the saddle, ran the screw/nut assy through the mill base and put the saddle on the base so I can attach the two.
IMG_0632.jpg

Next is mounting the fixed bearing block to the back of the base. One bolt in, two more to go.
IMG_0633.jpg
 

Chris Bettis

Registered
Registered
Joined
Oct 23, 2015
Messages
214
Likes
109
#36
More progress. Got the Y-axis ball nut mounted to the bottom of the saddle, ran the screw/nut assy through the mill base and put the saddle on the base so I can attach the two.
View attachment 117117

Next is mounting the fixed bearing block to the back of the base. One bolt in, two more to go.
View attachment 117118
Looking good Bill. Excited to see results on how well it all works.

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk
 

maker of things

Hermit
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
347
Likes
183
#37
Somehow I totally missed this in my news feed. I need to machine the raised flat on the saddle where the x nut mounts to true the ends up. It is probably overkill, but I'm going to use that as a key to lock the nut in place along with two screws. That I can't reasonably reach with the G0704 so I'll stop in at my FIL's and use the BP.
You cheated and had someone else do all the PITA figuring it out. Looks like the 20mm ballscrews which is what most people (who aren't too pig headed like me) use on these and the rf/zx 45s as well for cnc conversions. Probably 5 mm/rev pitch. Did you have to open up the (not sure correct nomenclature) "silver slidey plate" to fit around the y nut?
 

wrmiller

Chief Tinkerer
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
3,386
Likes
1,367
#38
Love it when you talk technical... :D

Yea, the silver slidey plate had to be opened up to clear the Y-axis ball nut mount. Clamped it down on some 123 blocks on the PM and went to town. Not a real critical dimension. :rolleyes:
 

wrmiller

Chief Tinkerer
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
3,386
Likes
1,367
#39
Well, it was a good day. Got the Y-axis fixed bearing block mounted and everything on that axis connected and lined up except the front support block. I can grab the front of the screw in my fingers. twist it, and move the saddle back and forth with no bind. Got the oiling system hooked up too. Not bad for a hack. :D
IMG_0635.jpg
 

maker of things

Hermit
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
347
Likes
183
#40
Love it when you talk technical...
And you used a spinny-cutty thing to open up the casting? or an inny-outie saw? and why did you need to use the drilly saw to make that front hole bigger?
 

wrmiller

Chief Tinkerer
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
3,386
Likes
1,367
#41
Open up the casting? You mean the top slot in the base? If that is what you mean, no I did my best to imitate a complete noob with a 4.5" angle grinder and cutting wheel. It is really ugly, but it's functional and I didn't loose any fingers or anything. The instructions said to open up the front hole so that the screw and nut can be inserted from the front. But once you screw on the ball screw nose and red loctite it per the instructions you can't remove it that way. So I made a notch in the bottom of that square hole in the back of the mill using a half round file and angled the screw assy into the base from the top. Didn't have to use the round hole cutter thingie. Need one? ;)
 
Last edited:

wrmiller

Chief Tinkerer
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
3,386
Likes
1,367
#42
One particular thing I noticed is that the Y-axis screw is backwards (not a left handed screw). That will take some getting used to...
 

coolidge

Active User
Registered
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
2,005
Likes
845
#43
One particular thing I noticed is that the Y-axis screw is backwards (not a left handed screw). That will take some getting used to...
Just crank it with your left hand :p
 

maker of things

Hermit
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
347
Likes
183
#44
you can reverse the motor direction in the pull down menu... yeah that will be an odd duck. If you do get used to it, that will be one week before you order a knee mill.
 

maker of things

Hermit
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
347
Likes
183
#45
If you wanted to get a little fancy it shouldn't be too hard to make a plate that bolts on the front that you could mount an auxiliary handle and mesh two gears to change the direction.
upload_2015-12-23_7-11-5.png
If this is becoming more popular maybe Paul will work with you to develop it, or find a source for LH thread/nuts.
 

wrmiller

Chief Tinkerer
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
3,386
Likes
1,367
#46
you can reverse the motor direction in the pull down menu... yeah that will be an odd duck. If you do get used to it, that will be one week before you order a knee mill.
I'm the motor here, and it's a forgone conclusion I will screw this up. (pun intended). :(


Interesting that you mentioned a gear drive. I just happen to have a couple of steel gears I bought to eliminate the plastic gears in my PM25 (the Hossmachine mod), but never used them because I converted it to belt drive. They've just been sitting in a bin waiting for me to do something with them. I may have to look into this. I would be a very unhappy camper if on the final passes of machining a pocket I forget and move the handwheel the wrong way... :cussing:
 

maker of things

Hermit
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
347
Likes
183
#47
I'm the motor here
Eww, your control circuits are all mushy. I wouldn't trust the programming either, no matter what you put in, the processor usually just spits out the same code that it has been for the last many years.
I would be a very unhappy camper if on the final passes of machining a pocket I forget and move the handwheel the wrong way... :cussing:
I'm not normally a betting man, but if I can place one now, I'm sure to be a winner.
 

wrmiller

Chief Tinkerer
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
3,386
Likes
1,367
#48
Eww, your control circuits are all mushy. I wouldn't trust the programming either, no matter what you put in, the processor usually just spits out the same code that it has been for the last many years.

I'm not normally a betting man, but if I can place one now, I'm sure to be a winner.
:p
 

wrmiller

Chief Tinkerer
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
3,386
Likes
1,367
#49
Ok, finished the oiling system, and put the table on the saddle, and...wait for it... the ball nut nose hits the table in several places, lifting the table about a 1/16" or so. :burned up::cussing::bang head:

So, after some minor yelling and threatening to throw things I took a carbide burr and file to the top of the ball nut nose because I stupidly forgot I have this new angle grinder that I could have attacked the underside of the table with (the Irish in me takes over sometimes and I don't think very clearly when that happens). :burned up::cussing::bang head:

(note to self: the next mill will be ordered with EVERYTHING I want, even if it takes an extra year to scrounge the funds)

This table isn't that heavy for me, when I'm only moving it once within an hour period. But when I have to put it on and off a half-dozen times this Old Guy gets tired. Which is why I'm sitting at a bench typing this and drinking coffee. :D

Current status is that I have the table on the saddle and am getting ready to mount the fixed bearing block on the right side of the table. I'm hoping for no more surprises going forward, but I still have to figure out how to get my X-axis power feed hooked to the left end of the X-axis ball screw.

IMG_0636.jpg
 

maker of things

Hermit
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
347
Likes
183
#50
maybe you should drink something that calms the nerves and steadies the hand;)
 

wrmiller

Chief Tinkerer
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
3,386
Likes
1,367
#51
maybe you should drink something that calms the nerves and steadies the hand;)
I am about to go do that. I hear my single-malt calling... :)

I'm done for the day. Didn't get a far as I expected obviously, but the table is on, the fixed bearing block mounted, and I can turn the screw with a bare hand.

IMG_0637.jpg
 

maker of things

Hermit
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
347
Likes
183
#52
Have one on me. The front of that casting surely would be ideal to mount a plate to reverse the handwheel.
 

coolidge

Active User
Registered
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
2,005
Likes
845
#53
Did you turn it through its full travel to make sure it doesn't bind at the extreme left or right table position? Now you are seeing why I said a few posts ago, take it slow, remain calm lol.
 

coolidge

Active User
Registered
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
2,005
Likes
845
#54
Have one on me. The front of that casting surely would be ideal to mount a plate to reverse the handwheel.
Or just put a power feed on it. Yes I know all you guys scoffed when I put a power feed on my Y but I'm telling you, its awesome.

Now with the ball screws and nuts he could probably turn it with a cordless drill, I seem to recall using a cordless drill when doing my CNC conversion years ago vs hand cranking myself to exhaustion. When you get into these conversions and your putting the table on and off multiple times, yeah poor Bill I know exactly how a guy can get well, upset. lol
 

wrmiller

Chief Tinkerer
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
3,386
Likes
1,367
#55
Have one on me. The front of that casting surely would be ideal to mount a plate to reverse the handwheel.
I am seriously considering this. There is a floating support plate that can go there for now, and I need to make an adapter/extension so I can at least get a hand wheel on there for now.

Did you turn it through its full travel to make sure it doesn't bind at the extreme left or right table position? Now you are seeing why I said a few posts ago, take it slow, remain calm lol.
I remember. ;)

Or just put a power feed on it. Yes I know all you guys scoffed when I put a power feed on my Y but I'm telling you, its awesome.

Now with the ball screws and nuts he could probably turn it with a cordless drill, I seem to recall using a cordless drill when doing my CNC conversion years ago vs hand cranking myself to exhaustion. When you get into these conversions and your putting the table on and off multiple times, yeah poor Bill I know exactly how a guy can get well, upset. lol
Now that's a thought. And you are probably right about the cordless drill. When moving the table back and forth I took a small needle nose vise grips and grabbed the end of the screw with it. I was turning the screw with with the vise grips and an index finger. Too cool. :D
 

coolidge

Active User
Registered
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
2,005
Likes
845
#56
Yeah man put a couple jam nuts on the screw and use your cordless drill and a socket. Don't take any crap off your machine, kick its ass!
 

maker of things

Hermit
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
347
Likes
183
#57
The screws aren't machined for your hand wheels?
 

wrmiller

Chief Tinkerer
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
3,386
Likes
1,367
#58
The screws aren't machined for your hand wheels?
No, these are the same screws that are machined for the servo couplings (or whatever they are called). I'll have to make a simple sleeve for the X-axis, but will have to make an extension for the Y-axis. Not sure what I have to make yet for the X-axis power feed.
 

wrmiller

Chief Tinkerer
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
3,386
Likes
1,367
#59
I know, it's Christmas eve, but I managed to sneak out to the garage and get the adapter made for the X-axis hand wheel. Coolidge: With the gibbs adjusted to right when you start to feel it noticeably drag, the table cranks from end to end with no perceptible increase in effort at the hand wheel. Nada. Sometimes I just get lucky I guess. And the difference in feel now is night and day. Feels like a completely different machine.

IMG_0641.jpg
I snapped a pic of the underside of the table. It's getting a bit crowded in there, but everything fits.

IMG_0638.jpg

Have a merry Christmas everyone. :)
 
Last edited:

coolidge

Active User
Registered
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
2,005
Likes
845
#60
Now you just need to re-name it, the 12z XR71 Miller Turbo Scramjet or something.
 
[6]
[5] [7]
Top