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9x20 Lathe CNC conversion

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jumps4

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today i made a riser block from 1"x4" bar stock for the quick change tool post and the new breakout board got here, $1.95 on ebay it's perfect nothing but a plug and terminals. the numbered points in the center of the card are for volt meter testing each pin. this will solve my slow speed problem letting my go from 25000hz to 100000hz 4 times the speed or higher microstepping for smoother motor movement. when i get the old one out i will post a pic of it so if your reading this to do a build you wont use that one. i installed the tach pickup for threading and even at the speeds i'm running i could thread. the sensor i have is acting up though so i'm waiting for a new one then i'll post a vid of the lathe threading. thats the real test for a cnc lathe, "threading" if you get that working good everything else will work good.
with acme screws the lathes backlash is .002 with ridged couplings and i set mach3 to compensate. the spiral couplings were too weak for the tight gibs and were flexing giving me .010 backlash. the way i built the z axis the screw is supported by the nut and thrust bearing on the other end so a ridgid mount worked well there also.
if the steppers will be fast enough after the new breakout board to do course threads at 145 rpm i wont need to change to a dc motor.
steve

DSCF0421.JPG DSCF0422.JPG DSCF0425.JPG
 

okent

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Looks great! Also looks like it's working. Is that a piece of brass in the chuck that you have turned?
 

jumps4

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everything is working but i didnt turn the brass since it has been cnc. i leave that in the chuck to protect the face of the jaws. i will install the new board today and retune the motors. then i want to make some shields for the motors and screws and a backsplash before i start using it. i am going to use flood cooling on the lathe once it is done.
steve
 

jumps4

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I replaced the breakout board today and boosted the speed to 100000hz i took before and after videos.
the $cheap board is 4 times faster
all i need now is the new irsensor for the index/tach and i can thread, it's working now but the sensor is not trustworthy
i made a few test cuts today and i show a pattern in the cut in time with the screw threads so i ordered a zero backlash shaft coupling $60.00 for two. the leadscrew is from the xz45 mill and a few thousands off center shifting the carrage .001 as it turns, darn chinese lol if the coupler does not correct the problem i'll have to sleeve the ends and regrind them true to the threads.
steve

before i replaced the board
[video=youtube;DWM-9EL636U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWM-9EL636U&feature=youtu.be[/video]


with the new cheap board (no chips)
[video=youtube;c-JsSNlUv9o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-JsSNlUv9o&feature=plcp[/video]
 

jumps4

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if you order a cnc kit, motors and drives and they send this breakout board throw it away it's junk ( bottom pic )
the one i show with no chips is the one i used the drives are opto isolated so this was fine for my system. ( top one )
steve

DSCF0425.JPG DSCF0428.JPG
 

8ntsane

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What a differance in speed. The first vid seemed to be slooow motion. After you fixed the problem seems much better.

What puzzles me is how did you know that was the problem? Common thing, or just my lack of understanding?
 

7HC

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What a differance in speed. The first vid seemed to be slooow motion. After you fixed the problem seems much better.

What puzzles me is how did you know that was the problem? Common thing, or just my lack of understanding?

I've met Steve, he's got a good understanding of electronics and he's pretty smart at figuring stuff out.


M
 

8ntsane

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I've met Steve, he's got a good understanding of electronics and he's pretty smart at figuring stuff out.


M
I wish I had better understanding of that type of stuff. Im wanting to learn, but find CNC in general can be very overwelming to get your head wrapped around the basic stuff.

I guess if it was easy, more guys would be doing it. ;)
 

jumps4

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it wasnt very technical to figure out the problem. the cnc lathe and my zx45 cnc mill i just finished use the same pc and uc100 usb controler connected to a"abcd" printer switch to switch from machine to machine so i knew the pc was putting out 100000hz, but at that speed the lathe would do nothing. the lathe has the same brand of drivers an power supplies as the zx45 mill so i knew it wasnt them so i checked the output on the breakout board and i have pulses going in but not out. the board had the 5v to power it. so it had to be slow optocouplers, i reduced the speed of the uc100 to 25000hz and it started working. so i purchased a breakout board with no optocouplers and everything was fine.
i have had my father visiting so i havent been working on the lathe and i'm waiting on two parts to finish it. i still have to make splash shields and a coolant pump system also. when i get it the best it is going to run i'll post a video of it threading or making something else. if it is too slow to make course threads then i'll purchase ballscrews and start over. but right now it looks like it's speed will be fine.
steve
 

jumps4

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the zero backlash coupling came today and i installed it the rythem on the finish problem is gone. i will video it when the speed sensor gets here and installed. i havent done much i have had company for a while.
steve
 

jumps4

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today the first threading on the lathe and it came out pretty well. the lathe is fine but i have to learn the software and i could have picked a tip with no radius, but all in all i'm very pleased. now i just need to learn how to do it right. the lathe tracked and stayed in seguence perfect.
next i'll build the enclosure and flood cooling.
steve


[video=youtube;kvkhyj-efKM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvkhyj-efKM&feature=youtu.be[/video]

you can see the radius of the cutter is too much but the die went on fine to check it.

DSCF0439.JPG
 

7HC

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today the first threading on the lathe and it came out pretty well. the lathe is fine but i have to learn the software and i could have picked a tip with no radius, but all in all i'm very pleased. now i just need to learn how to do it right. the lathe tracked and stayed in seguence perfect.
next i'll build the enclosure and flood cooling.
steve
That was cool, and it shows how much manual cranking and time was saved compared to the regular process.

Does Mach3 calculate the depth of thread, or do you stop it to check for fit when it looks as though it's about there?


M
 

jumps4

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everything can be programed in all i have to do is learn how. on my sherline, it would not thread, it didnt have enough power so i never took the time to learn. now that i have a lathe with enough power i'll practice more. ( with something besides brass ) i know very little about operating the cnc lathe software and cad drawing yet but now i have a reason to learn more.
steve
 

7HC

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everything can be programed in all i have to do is learn how. on my sherline, it would not thread, it didnt have enough power so i never took the time to learn. now that i have a lathe with enough power i'll practice more. ( with something besides brass ) i know very little about operating the cnc lathe software and cad drawing yet but now i have a reason to learn more.
steve
Ok, so would it be correct to say that in theory, assuming that the lathe has enough power and the correct size chuck and tooling, that any thread of any size could be cut using a CNC'd lathe with the software controlling the lead screw and cross-slide?

If so that would mean no changing of gears and calculating of ratios, which would be a good excuse to CNC a lathe just for threading! ;)


M
 

jumps4

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thats correct you could even make your own thread not just standard threads, any pitch you put in will be cut. if the spindle was slow and the z axis feed fast it would cut a spiral if thats what you wanted.

steve
 

jumps4

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my main reason for conversion is for balls, curves, concaves, fillets, and tapers these all require special tooling for a manual lathe and in some cases form cutters. once the lathe is trammed correctly any shape is possible requiring only tool changes for direction of path and shape clearance. tapers are easy with only requiring the correct angle be entered. my sherline made perfect mt2 and mt1 tapers
steve
 

Analias

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Wow, talk about timing. This last weekend my wife and I drove out to S. Cal. to pick up a converted CNC mini mill (Sieg X3) that I bought off of Ebay. While there the seller pointed me to a striped down HF 9"x20" lathe that he had stopped work on after buying a full CNC lathe. I bought it from him real cheap, including the CNC conversion parts. I figured it would be a great first project for the X3. The parts include the steppers, motor mounts, bearings, and ball screws.

I will be watching your conversion with great interest. Hopefully learning and applying what you do.
 

jumps4

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my conversion is working now, i just have to finish the splash enclosure and install a cooling pump.
i'm making qctp holders in another thread for it and i am planning a rear tool post.
if i can help you just ask
steve
 

jumps4

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cncing a lathe is a lot easier than a mill and a lot cheaper
but you will not use it near as much in most cases.
once done it does almost everything without taper attachments. gear changes, ball turners ect.
steve
 

OakRidgeGuy

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Well, in my case, it will get a lot of use, just doing specific things..
 

cjsamples

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eBay breakout board

Steve,
Do you have a link for that breakout board? Tried to find it on ebay and had no luck.
Thanks, Chris.
 

jumps4

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jumps4

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my lathe project has been on the back burner for a while i have been working on other projects but i still have to finish the enclosure and coolant pump system.
the lathe is usable now just not completed. I'll post a few pics when i get a chance.
steve
 

jumps4

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I installed a 3/4hp sewing machine motor that works better than the original and have been building the enclosure and guards. i did all the wiring and have yet to install the flood cooling but it is wired for the pump. also added a light in the enclosure.
steve

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Dirty Engineer

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Any further updates on this conversion? I have an identical lathe I'm converting.

Anything you might do different if you were to do it again?
 

redman

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Couldnt you just buy the female one instead of getting the gender changer?

How happy are you with your stepper packages off of ebay? Besides the breakout board is there other problems with the kits you have purchased? Is there any advantage to using 3 different power supplies rather than the big ones sold with the keling kits? Drivers as good as geckos?

Sorry for all the questions. I appreciate all the pictures and videos you have posted so far. It's been very helpful for me in understanding this process. Thanks!
 

jumps4

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Any further updates on this conversion? I have an identical lathe I'm converting.

Anything you might do different if you were to do it again?

the lathe works as well as i planned, at the time i didnt have much need for it and was built as just a fun project. now that i have it and use it all the time there needs to be changes. one the saddle was too worn and required a new 8" long gib to keep everything straight. that needs more power to move because of added friction. it works perfect for everything with no problems except cutting course threads. it wont move z fast enough to cut 8tpi unless the spindle is moving really slow. so i'm adding a 1600 motor to the z axis and a ballscrew there. x is fine.
the other problem is mach3 and the lathe, it is really buggy its like they never really work the bugs out of the software and wizards and what version to use is a guess. my mill works perfect but lathe you really have to watch it while it is running. just yesterday i was turning a big pipe bending dye and everything was going ok. i wanted to just boost up the feed rate a little. thats not a problem on the mill you just press the feed arrow and it speeds up a little while running. on the lathe i pressed the arrow and nothing happened, i tried a few more times and nothing. then all of a sudden it took off feeding at full speed burrying the cutter in the part. i wont try that again. mach3 seems to have always put lathe on the back burner.
steve
 

jumps4

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Couldnt you just buy the female one instead of getting the gender changer?

How happy are you with your stepper packages off of ebay? Besides the breakout board is there other problems with the kits you have purchased? Is there any advantage to using 3 different power supplies rather than the big ones sold with the keling kits? Drivers as good as geckos?

Sorry for all the questions. I appreciate all the pictures and videos you have posted so far. It's been very helpful for me in understanding this process. Thanks!
sure that would be an option instead of the gender changer. the option came up when using a uc100 or not with the same parallel cable. i have had good luck with everything i have purchased off of ebay as far as working but you have to be careful about the power supplies not being big enough (amps) or too low of a voltage. you really have to read the add and not just go for the cheapest. the seperate drivers and power supplies work better than the tb6560 boards with everything built into one, i have 2 tb6560 boards running, one on a sherline mill and one on a sherline lathe and they are good for that. anything bigger and they go poof too often. i have never owned geoko drives so i know no comparison. but what i do know is these guys are really competitive on ebay and to make the kits sound better they will fudge a bit on the specs. they may say the motor will be 880 oz/in but the power supply you get will never get that kind of power out of the motor because it is too small. or the motor is high power high speed but that requires twice the amperage your controller is rated at so you never get to wire it to get those results.thats the problem i'm having threading on my lathe. the motor drops in power rapidly as the rpms go up, so to move fast to thread i need a faster lead screw pitch and a bigger motor to get those speed or drop the spindle rpm really slow resulting in a poor finish on the thread. the ideal in cold roll i have found is to thread at about 600 rpm but that requires over 30upm feed to do 20tpi (not exact math) i start to falter above 20ipm right now so i have to drop the spindle rpms conciderably on course threads. if i wasnt threading the lathe works really well.
steve
 
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