Another single point threading question, sorry guys.

I follow along with many of the threads relating to threading sometimes in dis-belief . If you're working on DOD contracts , sure , you need ring gages , comparators , pitch mics etc . As stated above though , for non government work ( g jobs ) , cut your major diameter to nominal size and thread till the crest is not sharp but close to it . Fit it to a nut and be done with it . As Bemmy says above , a geometric die head is the way to go if you do a lot of threading , and as mentioned on other threads , not all dies are meant to cut threads , some are meant to repair damaged threads .
 
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It’s funny, because I am just learning this I assume that “real” Machinists in “real” shops are consulting the Machinery’s Handbook and working to ten thousandths. I’m not exposed to this day in and day out as many of you are, and so what you guys take for granted or what is just known by being immersed in the industry, those of us on the outside simply don’t know. I’m an Airline Pilot, there are hundreds of “industry norms” that I take for granted that may seem like utter magic to the “lay person”, but to the rest of my colleagues is business as usual.

My thanks to the bunch who have chimed in, and I will focus less on building to aircraft specifications and rather closer to what should be expected of a basement hobby shop. Just to give you guys a bit of a laugh however, and I will say that all the while that I was making my measurements I had in the back of my head that something was “not quite right”. I’ll remind you that in my line of work, this sense is something I have come to rely on and has saved my bacon more often than not. So to the confessional..... I did a bit more digging in my Machinery’s Handbook. I was looking for a nice easy chart with max and min for specific threads. Somehow (in aviation terms I lost situational awareness) and skipped the whole Unified Screw Threads section for my guidance values (ROOKIE MOVE) and chose “Interference Fit Threads” tables. While the numbers were close, they were wrong.

I’m flying all week with an anniversary at the end of the week but as soon as I can I will be heading to the metal supply to pick up some more stock and I’ll follow every suggestion within this thread. Thanks again guys, and to those who have made a living of this, take the time to remember how much you do in fact know, how really cool your industry and your abilities are, and how much we the basement shop guys and galls respect you.

Best regard to you all.

Derek.


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The lathe is an Atlas 10F. I do have a tail stock Die holder so perhaps I should be starting with single point and then finishing with the Die. The dies I used on drawbars 1 and 2 were fixed jaw and I think that I simply started the threads crooked. I measured the minor thread diameter and it is 17.5 thou (.0175) undersized but the major diameter is .4630 29 thou (.0290) undersized. Suggests to me that as I cut the threads deeper, the cutter was peeling OD material at the same time.
It is not like I have a tonne of experience, but...

Re threading with a die, I find it helpful to put a small chamfer on the end of the stock. Just a little more chamfer than the size of the thread. This helps centre the die on the stock to cut that first thread straight.

Re single-pointing, could you post a picture of your compound set up and threading tool? Perhaps something needs to be tweaked.

Craig
(BTW, I had a nice chat with a friend of yours yesterday--Mark from Burlington.)
 
. Just to give you guys a bit of a laugh however, and I will say that all the while that I was making my measurements I had in the back of my head that something was “not quite right”.

This is one of the most important things you can learn, both in machining and life in general. If that little voice says something is not right, LISTEN TO IT! That little voice knows whereof it speaks. Virtually every time I have ignored it I have come to regret it. Take the time to double check, call the client, question that irritable, self-righteous engineer. Whatever you do, DO NOT IGNORE THAT VOICE!
 
First time threading there is often something that goes wrong- either one cuts too deep (as you probably did) or the tool post angle is wrong or there is something wrong with the cutting tool, or you lose your place on the leadscrew. Atlas lathes are rather springy in terms of their rigidness which adds to the difficulty/challenge. Practice, practice, practice and you will get there
Mark
ps check your Zamak gears frequently for embedded debris and damaged teeth-they must run smoothly so as not to transfer imperfections to the thread you are cutting- It's happened to me
 
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Derek, I really like your attitude. You are going to find that many of the most experienced guys will pass on practical advice in a way that may sometimes come across as condescending. I'm almost sure that it is not meant that way; they are trying to help, just like most of us here are. In this case, they are right ... sorta'. Most stuff we make in a hobby shop (or even in a job shop) doesn't need to be made to fit specs so we can cut and fit to suit our needs. We don't need to use thread mics or wires. We cut the threads on one part and then cut the threads of the other part to fit that first one and we're done. I know you already know this so let me give you the stuff I think you're really after, knowing that you're trying to understand how screw cutting works.

Screw cutting is actually very detailed and complex but in practice it isn't that difficult to understand. There is just a lot to know, and much of it can be found in a good table like the one I am attaching. The chart gives you all the practical information you need to cut threads, including the OD you need to turn your part to in order to cut a given thread. This OD depends on the class of thread you want. Most of the time, a class 2 fit is all we need. Sometimes we need a precision fit - a class 3 - and you will see that the range of diameters needed for each class changes. You choose the class you need and then turn your part to fall into that range of OD listed in the chart. Say you're turning a 1/4-20 thread:

thread.PNG

Let's pick a class 2A (A means a male external thread) fit. Look at the numbers in the Major Diameter column. That Min/Max is the range of OD's your rod must be turned to in order to produce a class 2 fit, so you turn your rod until the OD is somewhere in the range between 0.2408 to 0.2489". Then you cut your thread. Now, in order to know how deep to cut you can calculate an estimate by using the formula 0.750/TPI, where TPI is the number of threads; in this case, 20, so 0.750/20 = 0.0375". So, you track your depths of cut as you cut your threads and well before you hit that total of 0.0375", you begin to check the thread pitch diameter with thread wires or a thread mic. The Pitch Diameter column will give you the range of diameters that will give you a class 2 fit. When you have cut deep enough for the pitch diameter to fall in this range, you're done.

Note also the last number, the Minor Diameter. That number is useful for cutting a thread relief. Just cut the relief about 0.005" deeper than the listed figure and about 2-3 threads wide.

As you can see, there is a lot more to cutting to specs so doing it this way is done only when it matters. For most things in a hobby shop, it won't matter; hence, the advice you got to just cut it until it fits. However, you should know how to cut it to fit when it does matter to you and I hope I made this a bit clearer for you. If not, say so and we'll go at it until it IS clear.
 

Attachments

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To Mickey and all...... thanks ever so much for the valuable input, suggestions and guidance material. I will follow this thread up in about a week, hopefully with successful result. That said my sincere thanks for all of your time, and for giving a darn regarding the newbies. Best regards to you all.

Derek


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Every single one of us started exactly where you are. You are simply new to this, not stupid. It will come so be gentle with yourself.
 
Derek, if you can keep track of all those gauges and switches in the cockpit and still land those machines on the runway then single point threading on a lathe will get easy for you real quick. I think back to my initial thread cutting efforts and get a good laugh. Now I would rather single point cut threads to get a custom fit instead of using a die even when it is not necessary. Thread charts are no mystery anymore and it has been a pleasant flight to get here.
 
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