Anyone here actually used Moglice on a lathe saddle?

[ltlvt]

I am getting close to working on my saddle repair for the 5913 Clausing. Has anyone here actually used it on the ways for their saddle repair? I've watched Keith Rucker's video on Tur cite of his Monarch lathe but the only thing I can find on Moglice is on their sales website. What are the pros and cons of both?

 

[ddickey]

Why Moglice? Have you considered Rulon or Turcite?

https://www.moglice.com/handbook/handbook.pdf

Devitt Machinery Company | Devitt Machinery Company

 

[rabler]

There was a youtube machinist, Machining360, that used it on a Monarch 16CY he was rebuilding. Unfortunately for whatever reason, his channel disappeared not long after.

I have no experience, but I eventually plan on redoing my saddle so have some interest so I've tried to soak up what I can. I haven't settled on which approach I'll use but lean toward turcite. Either of those require the saddle v's to be relieved first, since they all have a minimum thickness, and a roughened surface is desirable. Typically that means milling out the saddle as Keith did.

My recollection with the moglice is that you want to build damns around the bed ways, pour in the moglice, and then clamp the saddle down to get a good print. That means you need a good mechanism to hold the saddle at exactly the right height over the bed when clamped so that the saddle ends up at the right height. The bed ways are treated with a release so the moglice only bonds to the saddle. Once the moglice has set, the saddle is removed, and the moglice is cleaned up with a die grinder. It is a bit brittle.

In my mind the turcite approach looks a little easier for the amateur DIYer. The turcite is bonded, and then scraped in to final fit. Obviously that means some ability to blue and scrape, and the time involved.

I suspect the moglice can be done faster by someone experienced, but it seems like the moglice could be easier to mess up since the clamping/molding process between the saddle and ways is a critical, one shot or start over kind of thing.

 

[ltlvt]

There was a youtube machinist, Machining360, that used it on a Monarch 16CY he was rebuilding. Unfortunately for whatever reason, his channel disappeared not long after.

I have no experience, but I eventually plan on redoing my saddle so have some interest so I've tried to soak up what I can. I haven't settled on which approach I'll use but lean toward turcite. Either of those require the saddle v's to be relieved first, since they all have a minimum thickness, and a roughened surface is desirable. Typically that means milling out the saddle as Keith did.

My recollection with the moglice is that you want to build damns around the bed ways, pour in the moglice, and then clamp the saddle down to get a good print. That means you need a good mechanism to hold the saddle at exactly the right height over the bed when clamped so that the saddle ends up at the right height. The bed ways are treated with a release so the moglice only bonds to the saddle. Once the moglice has set, the saddle is removed, and the moglice is cleaned up with a die grinder. It is a bit brittle.

In my mind the turcite approach looks a little easier for the amateur DIYer. The turcite is bonded, and then scraped in to final fit. Obviously that means some ability to blue and scrape, and the time involved.

I suspect the moglice can be done faster by someone experienced, but it seems like the moglice could be easier to mess up since the clamping/molding process between the saddle and ways is a critical, one shot or start over kind of thing.

 

[ltlvt]

Devitt Machinery sells several types of Moglice. They recommend the putty for repairing saddles. The also the only scraping necessary is to flake it for oil retention. My idea is to make a jig that will locate both on the front Vee and the rear flat way. Using Set screws to jack it up for the correct clearance and also for the cross-slide alignment 90 degrees to the bed ways. I worry about having the skill to scrape the Turcite to achieve the accuracy I can with the Moglice. with winter just around the corner I will probably just get the Jig made and wait for warm weather to actually apply the Moglice. Therefore I expect I should wait till spring to order the Moglice. I have thought about using Saran Wrap on the Bed Ways instead of a release agent. I will try to mic the Saran Wrap and see how thick it really is first. Might even do a test sample to see how the Moglice reacts with the Saran Wrap. My Bridgeport Clone came from the factory with Turcite on the Female Ways and I love how tight the machine is and how it glides.

 

[tailstock4]

I used Moglice about two years ago on the saddle of a Monarch 10EE that I rebuilt for a friend. I didn’t have any real problems and the results were good - no voids in Moglice.

I used 1/8” vinyl tape stacked upon itself. This was taped to the v-ways for the oil grooves. I used a couple of applications of the recommended release agent sprayed over the bed and the tape to make sure it would release. After machining the saddle for the necessary thickness for the Moglice, everything was masked off with duct tape except the saddle way surfaces and the oil holes were plugged. I then sand blasted these way surfaces. The saddle then got a thorough bath with solvent afterwards.

A few things that seemed to help a great deal were heavy duty jigs which I was able to mount without any additional holes in the saddle. Also, I shimmed with shim stock to get close to the correct alignment before the final tweaking. I also made a rotisserie setup for the saddle which was suspended from a gantry crane with a small spreader bar. This allowed me to be able to apply the Moglice and then quickly rotate the saddle and then come down evenly. Weights were then used to hold the saddle down. It then set over the weekend.

A gantry and jack screws were used to pop the saddle loose from the bed. This posed no problem. I then flaked the Moglice for oil retention. It seemed like there was an initial wear in as eventually the saddle loosened up a little more. It was kind of evident that it had worn in when there was no dark residue coming from under the saddle. But even so I still think that Turcite has less friction, at least on the machines I’ve used it on.

There are 100 details I’ve left out, but this is one of those processes, kind of like painting, where you need to have all your ducks in a row before you apply the Moglice.

I’ve included a couple pictures of the jigs used. The long jig is mounted on the back of the 10EE saddle. The hole in the center was used for the long bar that went through the saddle front to back for the rotisserie. There is also a picture of the gantry that was used.

 

[ltlvt]

I used Moglice about two years ago on the saddle of a Monarch 10EE that I rebuilt for a friend. I didn’t have any real problems and the results were good - no voids in Moglice.

I used 1/8” vinyl tape stacked upon itself. This was taped to the v-ways for the oil grooves. I used a couple of applications of the recommended release agent sprayed over the bed and the tape to make sure it would release. After machining the saddle for the necessary thickness for the Moglice, everything was masked off with duct tape except the saddle way surfaces and the oil holes were plugged. I then sand blasted these way surfaces. The saddle then got a thorough bath with solvent afterwards.

A few things that seemed to help a great deal were heavy duty jigs which I was able to mount without any additional holes in the saddle. Also, I shimmed with shim stock to get close to the correct alignment before the final tweaking. I also made a rotisserie setup for the saddle which was suspended from a gantry crane with a small spreader bar. This allowed me to be able to apply the Moglice and then quickly rotate the saddle and then come down evenly. Weights were then used to hold the saddle down. It then set over the weekend.

A gantry and jack screws were used to pop the saddle loose from the bed. This posed no problem. I then flaked the Moglice for oil retention. It seemed like there was an initial wear in as eventually the saddle loosened up a little more. It was kind of evident that it had worn in when there was no dark residue coming from under the saddle. But even so I still think that Turcite has less friction, at least on the machines I’ve used it on.

There are 100 details I’ve left out, but this is one of those processes, kind of like painting, where you need to have all your ducks in a row before you apply the Moglice.

I’ve included a couple pictures of the jigs used. The long jig is mounted on the back of the 10EE saddle. The hole in the center was used for the long bar that went through the saddle front to back for the rotisserie. There is also a picture of the gantry that was used.

View attachment 463426 View attachment 463427 View attachment 463425

This is exactly the kind of information I have been hoping for. My idea of the jig is very similar to what you used. I'm sure each lathe and each saddle need their own custom jig but to me it is paramount to have all the wrinkles ironed out the shirt before the dance. Did you use the putty or the paste? From what I read on Devitt's web site they recommend the putty for use on the saddles. I also plan to bake the saddle in my oven to out gas any oils still in the cast iron and sand blast the ways before applying the putty. I certainly do appreciate you taking the time to document what you did and share with me. Keith used a Granite square to align the cross slide with the centerline of the bed, but I intend to use an indicator on a swing arm as is referenced in a book I have on building & rebuilding lathes. Also, about how much time from mixing to setting up of the Moglice . Does it set up so fast you have to be in a rush to set the saddle back down on the bed or is there ample time to get it in place? Here is a picture out of the book for aligning the cross slide 90 degrees to the bed center line.

 

[tailstock4]

I ended up using a precision square for alignment, but it looks like your method would also work. I also leveled the machine in all directions and used a Starrett master precision level when I was doing the alignment. After I was satisfied with everything, I lifted the saddle off the ways, sat it back down again, loaded it down with the weights I was going to use and checked the alignment again. I had a little bit of deflection. That’s why you see on the front two brackets the addition of the angled piece which was to increase the stiffness of these brackets.

As far as the Moglice, I believe I used the putty per the recommendation I got from Devitt. I believe it also had a bit Teflon for reduced friction. This was an option.

I had plenty of working time with this material. You do want to make sure that you order more than enough as getting a good, thick coverage I believe helps avoiding voids.

The rotisserie and the gantry were used along with blocks I had set up on the ways for location because you only get one shot once it contacts the ways. I didn’t want any chance of something moving unexpectedly or being out of position. Once the saddle was down with the Moglice on it, I used duct tape under the bottom of the saddle and the bottom of the ways to bridge this gap in case the Moglice wanted to sag out of this joint.

All in all, I found it to be a pretty straightforward process as long as you have the equipment to get it done and a good thorough plan. An extra pair of hands is also not a bad idea.

 

[ltlvt]

I ended up using a precision square for alignment, but it looks like your method would also work. I also leveled the machine in all directions and used a Starrett master precision level when I was doing the alignment. After I was satisfied with everything, I lifted the saddle off the ways, sat it back down again, loaded it down with the weights I was going to use and checked the alignment again. I had a little bit of deflection. That’s why you see on the front two brackets the addition of the angled piece which was to increase the stiffness of these brackets.

As far as the Moglice, I believe I used the putty per the recommendation I got from Devitt. I believe it also had a bit Teflon for reduced friction. This was an option.

I had plenty of working time with this material. You do want to make sure that you order more than enough as getting a good, thick coverage I believe helps avoiding voids.

The rotisserie and the gantry were used along with blocks I had set up on the ways for location because you only get one shot once it contacts the ways. I didn’t want any chance of something moving unexpectedly or being out of position. Once the saddle was down with the Moglice on it, I used duct tape under the bottom of the saddle and the bottom of the ways to bridge this gap in case the Moglice wanted to sag out of this joint.

All in all, I found it to be a pretty straightforward process as long as you have the equipment to get it done and a good thorough plan. An extra pair of hands is also not a bad idea.

I have a gantry but not sure I understand the rotisery you used.

 

[tailstock4]

What I meant by rotisserie is just a means to rotate the saddle over with the minimum of handling. The rotisserie was a rod that went through where the cross-feed screw normally goes. The rod was like 3’ long. Then I used a couple of 6’ or 8’ chokers to choke around the rods at each end. The chokers then went up to the gantry hoist hook with a small spreader to give enough clearance for the chokers to clear the wings of the saddle. This allows you to turn the saddle upside down directly on top of where it is going to go, apply the Moglice, lift it straight up, rotate it over and then straight down – a minimum of fuss. The point of using the gantry for this setup is to maintain control, not necessarily speed.

I also had a couple of wood blocks clamped to the ways where the saddle front would ride against so as to locate it lengthwise on the bed. This way there was no chance I would miss where the location of the tape for the oil grooves would be.