Atlas 3996 for sale, thoughts?

This was my process when I was looking at a lathe:

I looked at Grizzly, Jet, Little Machine Shop (LMS), Precision Mathews (PM) and Amazon. The biggest Harbor Freight machine was 8x12, but for comparison it was about $1000, less 20% plus about $100 for shipping and handling.

Grizzly had the following:
8x16: $1340 (prices are with shipping, but NO sales tax)
9x19: $ $1365
10x22: $1669-$2168
11x26: $1968
12X24: $3594
12x36: $3794

PM:
10x22: $2300
12x28: $3500

Jet:
13x40: $6839
12x36: $8399

A quick look at Amazon:
Baileigh 10x22: $2183. This brand comes up a lot on Amazon.
Jet 9x20: $3165 (shipping incl)
Most of what else came up was smaller.

LMS has small machines, too small for our comparison purposes here, but a 7x14 can be had for $730. This gives an idea of a price for a size.

If sellers are doing something similar, they are going to use the highest prices for setting a price. But, if I'm looking on CL, I'm looking for a deal; if I can buy a new lathe for less than $2000 why bother with CL. The PM and Jet seem more aimed for the pros than the home hobbyist. So I'm probably going to use the Grizzly prices for comparison. The company has a good reputation and has parts and accessories. But, the sellers are going to use the higher prices. Depending on the machine that might be a fair comparison.

I decided I would be willing to pay around half, plus or minus, of new for a used lathe. If I get no returns, no warranty, no idea what I'm getting until I get it home and an old machine that I will have to spend time looking for parts for, it's only worth the hassle if I can get a good deal and that seems like about half of the price of a new one. I'm sure others will disagree, but it's worked really well for me so far when buying and selling on CL.

So I figured I "should" be able to get a decent used lathe for around $800 to $1,000, plus or minus. I didn't mind something that needed some work or that was missing pieces.

For example here are a few sales in my area:
10x24 Samson $2250. It's been listed for about a month. I'm pretty sure this is the same seller who wants almost $1500 for a RF-30 clone mill/drill.
14x40 Enco clone (I think) $4500.
I think by now you can see the problem. The sellers are thinking $2000 and up and I'm thinking less than $1000. Even meeting in the middle at $1500 is too much; I can get a new one for another $500 or so. Not chump change, but it's new, with a warranty, customer service and parts and available accessories. And, besides, in my opinion, CL is for selling and getting deals, not some alternative marketplace for wannabe retailers.
Unless the extra 1" of swing is something special I know nothing about, I would argue that the price difference between the two sizes shouldn't be much more for a used machine.

Anybody have any insight as to why there is such a jump from 11" swing to 12" swing? Is that the point at which the bed needs to be built differently to accommodate the larger forces, or something else?

What I've heard when I call these people and talk to them is that "it's a nice machine and worth the price," often based on a machinist friend who told them what it was supposedly worth or their extensive experience parting them out on Ebay. Some say they are machinists and know the worth. They list all the new stuff that was replaced, or tell me they only took light cuts on brass and aluminum once a month, or something along those lines. The other thing I hear is some variation of they really don't want to sell it but will if they get asking price.

I could be wrong about all of this, though. Let me know if I'm missing something.

At the end of the day, I suppose it's worth what someone wants to pay.
 
ARC-170 said:
This was my process when I was looking at a lathe:

I looked at Grizzly, Jet, Little Machine Shop (LMS), Precision Mathews (PM) and Amazon. The biggest Harbor Freight machine was 8x12, but for comparison it was about $1000, less 20% plus about $100 for shipping and handling.

Grizzly had the following:
8x16: $1340 (prices are with shipping, but NO sales tax)
9x19: $ $1365
10x22: $1669-$2168
11x26: $1968
12X24: $3594
12x36: $3794

PM:
10x22: $2300
12x28: $3500

Jet:
13x40: $6839
12x36: $8399

A quick look at Amazon:
Baileigh 10x22: $2183. This brand comes up a lot on Amazon.
Jet 9x20: $3165 (shipping incl)
Most of what else came up was smaller.

LMS has small machines, too small for our comparison purposes here, but a 7x14 can be had for $730. This gives an idea of a price for a size.

If sellers are doing something similar, they are going to use the highest prices for setting a price. But, if I'm looking on CL, I'm looking for a deal; if I can buy a new lathe for less than $2000 why bother with CL. The PM and Jet seem more aimed for the pros than the home hobbyist. So I'm probably going to use the Grizzly prices for comparison. The company has a good reputation and has parts and accessories. But, the sellers are going to use the higher prices. Depending on the machine that might be a fair comparison.

I decided I would be willing to pay around half, plus or minus, of new for a used lathe. If I get no returns, no warranty, no idea what I'm getting until I get it home and an old machine that I will have to spend time looking for parts for, it's only worth the hassle if I can get a good deal and that seems like about half of the price of a new one. I'm sure others will disagree, but it's worked really well for me so far when buying and selling on CL.

So I figured I "should" be able to get a decent used lathe for around $800 to $1,000, plus or minus. I didn't mind something that needed some work or that was missing pieces.

For example here are a few sales in my area:
10x24 Samson $2250. It's been listed for about a month. I'm pretty sure this is the same seller who wants almost $1500 for a RF-30 clone mill/drill.
14x40 Enco clone (I think) $4500.
I think by now you can see the problem. The sellers are thinking $2000 and up and I'm thinking less than $1000. Even meeting in the middle at $1500 is too much; I can get a new one for another $500 or so. Not chump change, but it's new, with a warranty, customer service and parts and available accessories. And, besides, in my opinion, CL is for selling and getting deals, not some alternative marketplace for wannabe retailers.
Unless the extra 1" of swing is something special I know nothing about, I would argue that the price difference between the two sizes shouldn't be much more for a used machine.

Anybody have any insight as to why there is such a jump from 11" swing to 12" swing? Is that the point at which the bed needs to be built differently to accommodate the larger forces, or something else?

What I've heard when I call these people and talk to them is that "it's a nice machine and worth the price," often based on a machinist friend who told them what it was supposedly worth or their extensive experience parting them out on Ebay. Some say they are machinists and know the worth. They list all the new stuff that was replaced, or tell me they only took light cuts on brass and aluminum once a month, or something along those lines. The other thing I hear is some variation of they really don't want to sell it but will if they get asking price.

I could be wrong about all of this, though. Let me know if I'm missing something.

At the end of the day, I suppose it's worth what someone wants to pay.
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I’ve noticed the same thing on FB market place. Besides lathes the other thing is tool chests. There are lots of over 3k used Snap on, MAC type tool chests on these markets. 90% of the buyers are home based hobby guys who want more tool storage. Yes the new ones are expensive but why do I need a 3k box to hold my hand tools when my 1k new HF, Husky, Cobalt, or Craftsman will work for me?

I have a G0750G Grizzly as my lathe. At the time I was looking the only thing that came up was one SB 2 hours away and a few large Craftsman (Atlas) again was a 2 to 3 hour drive. The price was 2/3 of what I paid for my Grizzly. My lathe was shipped to me and all I had to do was mount it up on the base and set it up. I did have a problem with the lathe early on and Grizzly actually had a tech call me and walk me through troubleshooting and was a big help. Point is while these used lathes are out there the pricing is a bit high considering the lack of knowledge of the machine.

50% is a good starting point. Unless you’re getting a machine that has a traceable history. My mill was like that. It spent its life in CLT airport in a maintenance shop, was destined for sale at scrap price, the gentleman I purchased it from traded work he was doing for the mill, brought it to his shop checked it out and fixed a couple of minor things and put it on CL. Compared to buddies Bridgeport’s my mill is a monster. I couldn’t be happier.


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Disagree on the boxes . I can put 500lbs of tools in any drawer of my Vidmar cabinets . That would flip my HF boxes face over if the drawers didn't collapse first . I agree , 99% of the population doesn't need " professional boxes " . They have limited tools and don't need the lb per in capacity . On the other hand , if I walk into a shop and see HF boxes , it says a lot to me . Same as the name on the tools , depends on what your reason is or need for the tools . JMO .

Edit . I have nothing against HF boxes , I own 4 of them . I sold 5 complete Kennedy roll arounds with middle and top boxes over the past 2 years while down sizing , and kept the HF boxes because they suited my needs better .
 
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mmcmdl said:
Disagree on the boxes . I can put 500lbs of tools in any drawer of my Vidmar cabinets . That would flip my HF boxes face over if the drawers didn't collapse first . I agree , 99% of the population doesn't need " professional boxes " . They have limited tools and don't need the lb per in capacity . On the other hand , if I walk into a shop and see HF boxes , it says a lot to me . Same as the name on the tools , depends on what your reason is or need for the tools . JMO .

Edit . I have nothing against HF boxes , I own 4 of them . I sold 5 complete Kennedy roll arounds with middle and top boxes over the past 2 years while down sizing , and kept the HF boxes because they suited my needs better .
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Agreed I said many times if I was a professional mechanic I’d use a Lista or Vidmar cabinet instead of the tool truck boxes. I’d build a frame and put casters underneath IHMO either of the two is better than any tool truck box.

I did some automotive work as a hobby years ago. My hand tools are mostly old Craftsman. But I have no qualms about using HF tools for light or one time use. A professional needs tools he can rely on but there are options beside the tool truck.

Personally I needed a larger hand tool box that would fit in one place in my shop. The HF box I have fits my needs. Where I spent my 40 year career didn’t want you to use your tools, I had some machinist tools in a Craftsman machinist chest (just like a Kennedy probably mad by them way back then). So when my home shop started I had that’s what I started with

My machinist box today is a knockoff wooden top, sitting on an Craftsman riser, settling a Husky roll around. I repurposed the Craftsman and Husky boxes from my tool box arrangement before. The bottom of the old chest is under my workbench for more storage.

It works for me. Like automobiles, tools, machines, and most other things we all find what we make work and feel good about using. In my home shop its function first looks later. Must be the old farmer mentality.


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Jeff, your logic on this is quite similar to mine. Due to shop space and budget limitations I set the PM 10x22 or Grizzly 11x26 as my ultimate goal, which set my used budget at about $1200. At $1200 I was at about the cost a new 9x19 which was about as small as I wanted to go, and much more than $1200 I was getting into rock throwing range for the 10x22 or 11x26. Of course the further away from $1200 (going down) the better a used machine, even one with some issues looked.
 
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Aaron_W said:
Jeff, your logic on this is quite similar to mine. Due to shop space and budget limitations I set the PM 10x22 or Grizzly 11x26 as my ultimate goal, which set my used budget at about $1200. At $1200 I was at about the cost a new 9x19 which was about as small as I wanted to go, and much more than $1200 I was getting into rock throwing range for the 10x22 or 11x26. Of course the further away from $1200 (going down) the better a used machine, even one with some issues looked.
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I seen your point. The problem here in Charlotte area that size lathe is closer to 2k


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jdedmon91 said:
I seen your point. The problem here in Charlotte area that size lathe is closer to 2k


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Right and at $2000 a new import machine looks pretty good compared to a 50 year old machine with 50 years of wear, 50 years of possible abuse / neglect, no service, limited parts and no warranty.
 
Keep in mind the first of these lathes were built in 1957 and the last were built in 1981. That makes it a minimum of 37 years old, or possibly as old as 61 years. Looking through the "Sold" listings on eBay it appears the average price has been around $1,200.00. There are still some out there for an asking price of $3,000.00, but as Bruce mentioned they may never sell. If you're willing to spend anywhere near the $3,000.00 mark there are far better lathes to be had. You can buy older professional grade American Iron or fairly new Chinesium iron.

If the seller really believes he can get that kind of money for it he's relying on either uneducated buyers, or is attempting to hold up someone who needs a part, and he's the only one in the world that has it.

As a side note I've never paid that kind of money for any of the machines in my shop. The most expensive of the lot was a Sheldon lathe that had been rebuilt including grinding the ways, and that came with several chucks (4), a collet system, a follow rest, steady rest, QCTP, several drill chucks, dead and live centers, and other assorted tooling.

Be patient. You'll find good machinery for a much more reasonable price.
 
As I wrote earlier, I think a fair price for a 3995 (12x24 cabinet) or 3996 (12x36) bare lathe (as it originally came from the factory) is around $1200. That's ballpark about half what it sold for new and about 1/3 to 1/4 of what it would sell for new today. When I said that I wouldn't take that for mine, I merely meant that I've no desire nor need to sell mine. As with the Logan, and not with the Clausing or AFAIK the smaller SB's, new parts availability is still pretty good, although the prices are today's prices, not 1981's and for sure not 1957's. Tech support is still available. Parts and owners manuals are widely available although quality varies from junk to "good as new". Availability of "The Manual of Lathe Operation" is good, although there were 33 editions published and you need to match your lathe version to the MOLO version.

However, if you already know that your first dozen jobs are going to need a spindle bore larger than 3/4", you need to forget about the four makes that I've mentioned, beef up your bank account, and look elsewhere.
 
Aaron_W said:
Right and at $2000 a new import machine looks pretty good compared to a 50 year old machine with 50 years of wear, 50 years of possible abuse / neglect, no service, limited parts and no warranty.
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That is why I went with a new Grizzly 4 years ago. Now I did lucky on the mill but it still was more expensive than one in New England. But for this area it was reasonable


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